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[-] computerfan0@beehaw.org 43 points 1 year ago

As a school student in a school where phones are banned, I think this is a bad idea. The ban achieves 2 things for me:

  1. Making it harder to check a fact or figure quickly.

  2. Preventing me from listening to music, playing games or browsing the web uring lunch break.

It DOES NOT stop me from becoming disengaged from the class! If I'm bored, I'll look out the window, play with a calculator or something similar. And of course the ban hasn't stopped many students using phones anyway. Maybe phone bans don't solve the issue of uninteresting classes after all?

[-] Thurgo@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

Do you guys still play block dude on the Texas Instruments calculators?

[-] computerfan0@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago

We don't have those kind of calculators in the schools here. I just do the old-fashioned "input random sums and see what the calculator says".

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[-] gnzl@nc.gnzl.cl 7 points 1 year ago

Well, you can fact check later right? If nothing else kids will learn to be bored again, which is good.

[-] buxtonwater@lemmy.ml 41 points 1 year ago

Yeah good luck with that... Even if it was agreed upon it is effectively unenforceable without resorting to essentially temporary theft as we see today, causing the students to hide their phones even better.

[-] emr 18 points 1 year ago

If students hide their phones instead of being distracted by them, isn't that mission accomplished?

[-] CMLVI@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago

As previous student who was in school when cell phones blew up in usage, I wasn't not preoccupied by my phone because I had to keep it hidden. I was preoccupied with keeping it hidden so I could keep using it. Texting with T9 without looking was a breeze. The only thing that slowed my usage was the fact I only had like 500 texts a month allotted to me.

Making the kids hide it won't make them less distracted. They just become distracted by hiding the phone. I feel like you'd almost have to just ban phones entirely, which today is pretty impractical.

[-] buxtonwater@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not really, they're still using them. Just not as obviously. They'd be even more distracted trying to hide it and focus on everything at the same time.

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[-] shirro@aussie.zone 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Phones like vapes in schools are there so businesses can profit by exploiting kids. The device hardware is powerful and potentially useful with the right software but the most popular apps are generally exploitative and potentially dangerous to mental health and privacy and because the industry uses dark patterns based on gambling to drive up engagement they are a distraction and reduce attention.

My kids have a lot of access to technology and the Internet at home. I am not opposed to them having phones when they show the right level of maturity and demonstrate a real need but they don't need them in class. Their school has had a phone policy for a long time which I support. Kids should have the freedom to be themselves at school and make mistakes without them being captured and spread via mobile devices.

[-] The_Terrible_Humbaba@beehaw.org 20 points 1 year ago

I can easily go without using my phone for extended periods of time, and always have been. I've never really been "phone addicted", and never used my phone during class - despite having one for the entirety of my school years.

That still never stopped me from not paying any attention in class. Drawing on a book/desk, talking to the person next to me, looking out the window, or just spending time with my imagination were things I did too often, and I never needed a phone for any of it.

I seriously doubt banning phones would make much of a difference, other than pissing plenty of kids off. You're essentially being forced to go to a place, every day, where you will be stripped of your personal belongings and are not allowed to be in contact with the outside world.

[-] Sentinian@lemmy.one 13 points 1 year ago

This was my experience with schooling as well. Sure I had my phone but it wasn't what I needed to lose focus. The issue is how school is taught. I've had classes where I'm so focused and invested because of the professor and content. My mind wouldn't even think about being bored. But some professors are honestly shit and don't engage enough. Couple that with the general school environment and boom nobody wants to be there.

[-] computerfan0@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

That's my exact experience too. My school already bans phones, but that hasn't stopped me staring out the window or just sitting there and thinking to myself. A phone would be an improvement as I'd at least have a chance of looking up something relevant to what the teacher's saying.

[-] Levsgetso@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 year ago

Phone bad!!! But jokes aside phones are not the problem, the students don’t need a phone to distract themselves from studying. Banning them won’t solve a problem it would just be tach illiterate 60 year old padding themselves on the back for „getting those evil phones out of the classroom”.

[-] loops@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I use my phone/laptop a lot in class too look things up. Like finding gifs of the stages of a beating heart, and generally, reading about the same topic being covered by the professor, but explained differently. It helps tremendously. That being said, there are certainly other people in any class that are on tiktok or whatever else and those people wouldn't pay attention with or without their phones. Take their phones away and they'll just distract themselves with something else. They don't want to be there and taking their phones away won't fix that; it will probably just make it worse.

This reminds me of the idea that violent video games causes violence; which they do, but only in people that are pre-disposed to behaving violently; and in those cases they're violent with or without the video games. It's the same with smart phones. They'll only distract people that are already going to be distracted. It's just a matter of what they're going to be distracted by.

The onus instead should lie with how the classes are delivered, and tangentially, how the entire system itself is funded.

[-] wim 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm not convinced. I think a lot more people are susceptible to getting distracted than there are susceptible to extreme acts of violence.

Your stated good use cases can easily be performed after/outside of classes. And I would say in this day and age should be part of assignments/homework/studying in high school level education to guide and educate young people in filtering, identifying and assessing source materials better. But that's asking a lot from teachers, who are not experts at this, either.

I don't see how any of this discussion relates to funding though.

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[-] bedrooms@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago

Can they ban politicians from requiring tablets as an education tool? I don't see the point. If anything, they should use a computer instead. There's no point using a gadget sub-optimal for anything active learning.

[-] Sentinian@lemmy.one 14 points 1 year ago

I understand the logic that UNESCO is trying to make. However instead of a global ban on the device itself, ban the addictive parts of it. TikTok and most other corporate social media are designed to keep everyone, kids and adults alike as addicted to the platform as possible. Phones are still a valuable resource for a student, including being able to call in the event of an emergency or having access to maps or other things.

Ban the actual evil on the phones, not the phones themselves

[-] Lowbird@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

Tiktok actually has (or had, last I looked at it) a lot of value for marginalized groups finding content made by and for each other. I used it for a while before the ads got to be too much, and I had NEVER seen so many regular trans and nonbinary and ace and aro people getting to talk to each other about whatever instead of only about gender and orientation (and seeing them existing as regular people in video form is just really fucking comforting if you're not around others like you in real life), nor so many informative videos by and about disabled folks. T

he platform has (had?) an incredible ability to enable discovery of niche communities, and I rapidly learned a hell of a lot about accessibility (from videos by actual disabled people about their struggles and solutions and day to day lives), about modern Native American cultures (especially there were a lot of Native American amateur comedians that were very funny) and concerns (f the pipeline), about ex-mormon experiences, about autistic people (yes, there's a lot of misinformation on tiktok about neurodivergence, but there's ALSO a lot of actual neurodivergent people talking about what their day to day experiences are actually like in a way that's really damn hard to find in other places that are dominated by Doctors and parent-directed articles), and people/culture from India (before India banned Tiktok), and so on and on, that I wouldn't have learned about otherwise.

And there were more successful female and Black comedians than I've ever seen elsewhere. I had more videos by Black people and Asian people and women then I've ever even come close to having in my youtube feed; it's not even comparable in that respect, really.

All of which long-winded paragraphs is to say, don't ban Tiktok, or other specific platforms. Especially not when the bills that are ostensibly to do that hand absurd amounts of power to government to do the same to future platforms with little to no oversight and with little to no justification. And more platforms just like them will crop up out of the ashes anyways.

Instead, ban individually-personalized advertising, aka the root motivator that makes companies want to peel every scrap of information out of their users in the first place.

Individually targeted advertising hasn't been a thing for that long, even though it feels so ubiquitous and unstoppable now, and for decades companies did just fine with population-level targeting like newspaper ads used to be.

I don't think the individualized ad targeting has added anything of value to society.


Having typed all that, I re-read your comment and, yeah, I suppose schools could at least block social media sites on their school wifi. That can only do so much when they've all got data connections anyways, though.

Anyway I agree that phones shouldn't be banned. It's infeasible, inadvisable, and counterproductive.

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[-] argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

However instead of a global ban on the device itself, ban the addictive parts of it.

There is no way to do that without giving the school remote control over the phone, which would be a security and privacy violation.

[-] Sentinian@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

I was moreso referring to dealing with the dark patterns that apps use in general, not the school doing that.

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[-] awwsom@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago

they give 0 thoughts to what they say or are they just idiots?

[-] ailiphilia@feddit.it 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@som

Just a question: Are the tech managers in Silicon Valley also idiots? I posted the article already, but here's it again as the thread has become long: https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/2015/dec/02/schools-that-ban-tablets-traditional-education-silicon-valley-london

[-] awwsom@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

“Those students who use tablets and computers very often tend to do worse than those who use them moderately,” he adds.

This is from your article and I could have saved them the money of doing this research. Also this is tablets not phones. They are allowed phones. You know why? because even they understand not everyone can see their house from the classroom window and need to use the phone to communicate.

Limiting the use during class is all I am in for. Banning it from school is just idiotic.

Also yes. I do think tech managers in Silicon valley are idiots. The biggest proof of that is we are talki g on lemmy and not reddit.

[-] OneRedFox@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago

Would be good for breaking some phone addictions, but good luck to the teachers that will have to deal with the withdrawls of the students.

[-] sanzky@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

I hate these kind of discussions. UNESCO released a report of over 400 pages full of research, recommendations, possible outcomes, etc. but here we are discussing just what people think when they hear "ban smartphones"

[-] ailiphilia@feddit.it 7 points 1 year ago

Tablets out, imagination in: the schools that shun technology (2015)

In the heart of Silicon Valley is a nine-classroom school where employees of tech giants Google, Apple and Yahoo send their children. But despite its location in America’s digital centre, there is not an iPad, smartphone or screen in sight.

[-] money_loo@1337lemmy.com 3 points 1 year ago

Feel like you should post this stuff in the Luddite community, not the technology community.

[-] shirro@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My kids who are now teens had ipod touches practically from birth (we got the first versions of the Ipad, raspberry pi etc). They looked so clever to non-technical people fluidly swiping puzzle pieces around on a screen in a UI language most adults at the time barely understood. Then one day I put a wooden puzzle in front of them and realised their touch puzzle apps lacked several degree of freedom available in the physical world and they didn't know how to rotate. The physical world is so much richer in many ways and skills learned in it are often more widely applicable.

It isn't that technology isn't valuable and can provide a benefit. It isn't automatically superior or more complete and some people fetishize it to a ridiculous extent. For decades kids spent a huge amount of time cutting and pasting content into powerpoint in primary schools here at the expense of illustrating, reading and hand writing because companies like Microsoft were engaged in a war for mind share. Most technical people like myself thought this was a very poor use of technology but less technical people probably thought we were luddites. I have seen my kids do animation and story telling with apps that I think is quite a good use of technology but I wouldn't deny them the experience of doing art with physical materials which I think in most ways is more foundational.

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[-] bbbhltz@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago
[-] ailiphilia@feddit.it 13 points 1 year ago

It is doable, but the parents must contribute to that.

[-] money_loo@1337lemmy.com 4 points 1 year ago

So literally every one of these technology communities exists just to spread FUD and hate on technology? I can’t find a single one that actually likes tech…ugh.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2023
149 points (99.3% liked)

Technology

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