Asklemmy
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
I feel like the same thing happens to me. I tend to relate it to stress - whether it's realized or not - so I call it stressed based insomnia, my mind just turns on things, big or small, and it's random and I will not be able to sleep. Not that it helps, but I can relate
I never did work it out myself. Sometimes I was fine. Other times I didn't sleep for 3 days. Was "sort of" independent of stress and so on, although higher average stress levels made it a little worse. Or maybe stress just feels worse combined with sleep deprivation. I tried various changes to my habits over the next few years, none of which made any difference -- although some were good for other reasons (e.g. getting into better shape, eating better, and so on).
Went to go see a doctor. They brushed it off, so I went to go see another doctor. They prescribed a low dose of a sleeping pill.
Problem solved forever with no noticeable side effects. I think I'm on 1/2 the pediatric dose or something. Amazing how so little of something can make such a big difference in my life. Wish I had gone to see 2 doctors earlier.
Trazadone?
No, although I'm outside the US and not familiar with their medication names or medical system.
You ever get it in weird way that you are just lying in bed, tired but awake, waiting for your body to go sleep, and you start dreaming before actually falling asleep? This happens to me from time to time
Have you ever been evaluated by a psychiatrist? I used to have issues with insomnia and it turns out I'm neurodivergent (bi-polar). I was seeking sleeping pills and ended up entering treatment before I reached the point where it gets really messy (late 20s-early 30s). It's manageable in part via a very rigid sleep-routine that only deviates if I go out with friends or go to a show / concert. And sleeping pills, but nothing like what I used to need to knock me out.
Maybe diary a bit, logging different aspects consistently for a couple weeks, and keeping a sleep log in the morning to see how well you did, if you continue to insomnia without correlation to anyone you're tracking in your diary, change what you log.
I suggest food, social contacts, feelings during commute, future scheduling, hobby tracking.
You might not come up with the exact stressor at first, but if you find a pattern in something you're tracking you may be able to determine what's causing the pattern and be able to take corrective action.
If nothing else journaling can be fun!
I struggled with this for decades and ended up noticing a pattern with the food I ate for dinners that were high in glutamates. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter and thus if you are sensitive it will put your brain into overdrive and sleep is just not possible as basically you are drugged. Only effects a small portion of the population but I can tell you, I sleep very well now that I avoid high glutamate foods past 5pm as they tend to not make my mind race until several hours after consumption and once the effect kicks in, it does not wain off until 3-5am which kills my sleep. Avoiding glutamate has been the single biggest quality of life improvement along with focusing on my gut biome which when out of balance can make it harder to fall asleep as believe it or not, out guts make a lot of the neurotransmitters we need to function including melatonin which is the sleep neurotransmitters.
I wish you luck no matter the root cause. Feel free to ask me more about this.
Even though you're right in that glutamate is a neurotransmitter, eating it doesn't affect our brain chemistry at all. It can't pass the blood-brain-barrier. Which is relieving since basically every food group contains it and flooding our brain with that would lead to violent epileptic seizures and certain death. Not insomnia.
And melatonin isn't a neurotransmitter but a hormone.
So maybe you do in fact sleep better when avoiding specific food groups in the evening, but your explanation certainly isn't correct.
Just putting this out there since glutamate is such a highly misunderstood molecule surrounded by many misconceptions, this one being a very common one.
I think the issue is that there are conflicting studies. Some like this one that has found some people to be glutamate sensitive.
https://myacare.com/blog/part-1-glutamate-sensitivity-real-myths-about-glutamate-msg-and-more
You can also find studies that say there is zero effect. Donβt doubt their results as they never tested me because if they did, they would have a different result. Plenty of other studies have also found some to be sensitive to glutamate so downplaying here might lead someone to dismiss my suggestion which is a real shame as there is Zero harm to cut out high glutamate foods for a period and see how sleep goes.
For me, I absolutely assure you that high glutamate foods really make me hyper. Like zero doubt here as I have experimented a lot with this right down to a teaspoon of MSG with non glutamate dinner that I know has no effect on my sleep to end up absolutely wired for 12hrs as if I slammed 5 cans of red bull and more. It is really awful and while you clearly do not have this issue, I kindly request you do more research before sharing as it is not as black and white as you just presented.
No what I'm saying is maybe you are sensitive (for whatever reason - from a exceptional metabolism to placebo, over other sensitivities/allergies, complex psychological effects, etc everything is possible) but it's certainly not because glutamate is a neurotransmitter.
Neurotransmitters and the stuff in our bloodstreams (nutrients, hormones and so on) are two very different systems. Think of it as a river and a power grid. We all have this massive stream of different molecules in our bodies, and we have an elaborate information system made from electric and chemical signaling, like cables and batteries, working right beside it. The batteries might happen to utilize the same molecules that swim around in the river, but they still have nothing to do with each other. The river doesn't touch the batteries, and your body very carefully decides which part it takes out of the water and into the batteries. Highly simplified of course, but that's kinda how you can imagine why one doesn't hurt the other.
I should also add that many food additives also can ruin my sleep, although not nearly as much as high glutamate. Red dye no 40 is particularly bad but so are many other additives with names few can pronounce.
If you have vitamin deficiencies, fortified food can also cause you to run at 120%. In some countries (e.g. US) Noodles and flour are fortified with B-vitamins. Maybe that's what you're experiencing? It happened to me a few times.
I take melatonin daily, it works for me.
Try weed.
Try therapy
Why not both?
Weed therapy