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From its start, Gmail conditioned us to trade privacy for free services (www.engadget.com)
submitted 4 months ago by freddy@lemmy.one to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one
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[-] massive_bereavement@kbin.social 106 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I'll blame the early internet. So often stuff was for free, either due to the dot com bubble or just because someone wanted to create something.
More often than not the second one.

I mean, there were pages full of flash video games and animations with that sole purpose, no ulterior intentions.

When google came around, it too seemed amother neat free thing.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 42 points 4 months ago

And they also had a “don’t be evil” slogan that existed until the founders stepped away. Google pretty immediately went to build the great firewall of China so the free ride was over a long time ago.

[-] gregorum@lemm.ee 31 points 4 months ago

So much of the early internet was free because we all had so much trouble convincing anyone that it was worth investing in or even paying for. I mean… people hardly noticed it was there, seeing it was difficult and expensive, and developing what we now know as the internet was at least a decade and a trillion dollars away. Oh, and, no one believed in it or thought it was worth it. Everyone needed convincing.

This was 1995

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago

The internet wasnt built after 2005; by 2005 it was already dying.

[-] stardust@lemmy.ca 47 points 4 months ago

Even if it weren't free companies would likely have moved towards collecting data. Just look at how the price tag of cars doesn't protect you from not being a product.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

Only fix is to end these companies, build an open future.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 38 points 4 months ago

Hey member when they drove around and sucked up everybody’s wifi and (where possible) password? And then they were like “oh well if you don’t want us to use your network in our data then it’s on you to keep it out” member that.

Yeah.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

“Security” idiot bro they hired at a bank* I used work for would drive around with a laptop and his buddies to break into WiFi as a hobby. It was truly disturbing, but he was an entitled ass so maybe not surprising.

*Silicon Valley Bank if you were curious.

[-] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 months ago

Wardriving, wonder what one would find today

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

Takes a lot longer to crack modern WiFi, requires watching connects/disconnects and going after the handshakes or something.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

Yeah this was 20-22 years ago, early days of WiFi.

[-] doc@kbin.social 7 points 4 months ago

I never removed "_nomap" from my SSID. I doubt they even care about it anymore.

[-] toynbee@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

It should always have been opt-in, not opt-out. I remember ranting about it to my girlfriend at the time. I don't think she cared.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago

Nobody fucking cared. Being right is worse than useless.

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 36 points 4 months ago

But they also offered a really good product, especially when it came to spam filter compared with other email services at that time.

[-] cucumber_sandwich@lemmy.world 31 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Also amount of storage. When Gmail first launched it offered a gig of storage or so, while other email providers had around 10 megabytes.

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 1 points 4 months ago

Absolutely, now it's the standard but limited email storage space was rather standard.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Were the other free emails like hotmail selling user data?

Was there a reason to assume google was doing it differently than other email providers before they were caught selling user data?

No, user agreements/terms of service don't count because we all know nobody reads those things and they can change at any time.

[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I don’t think that’s a very fair assessment. We are a lot more aware of what “free“ is now. We weren’t informed consumers and collectively are relatively more so these days, even if most people still choose to ignore the issue. Back then we didn’t know there was an issue. I know I sure didn’t know I was agreeing to let them scan my inbox.

I also think more than ever people are now questioning what free means. So I’m not really sure how one can argue we are conditioned to accept the price of “free” when more than ever people are questioning it and adopting things like VPNs and adblockers to reassert their privacy.

Reminder that 25% of Americans use an ad blocker, constituting the largest consumer boycott in history. It’s such a big problem that Google has been actively trying to thwart it. That doesn’t seem like conditioned (in their favor) behavior if you ask me.

[-] brbposting@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 months ago

While 52% of Americans said they use an adblocker, which is up 18% from a 2022 analysis by Statista, that figure grew to 66% for experienced advertisers (those with five or more years of ad experience).

via Ghostery

Yuge numbers!

[-] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 1 points 4 months ago

I might’ve misremembered it then! Probably 25% of internet users. It was from the “enshittification” defcon talk

[-] Poutinetown@lemmy.ca 15 points 4 months ago

And the company came under fire again in 2018 after The Wall Street Journal revealed it was allowing third-party developers to trawl users’ Gmail inboxes, to which Google responded by reminding users it was within their power to grant and revoke those permissions.

So you can remove those permissions, just that it's enabled by default. Shitty design, but it's not mandatory to enable those, just like how you are not forced to use edge when you get a Windows computer.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

You kind of are forced to use Edge though. There are certain functions via which Edge and only Edge will always launch. F1, the help button, is bound to a function that launches Edge anywhere in Windows Explorer, so you have a hotkey that cannot be rebound ready to pop Edge into your face at any time if you happen to fat-finger it.

The only way you can prevent it from launching Edge is either to intercept the keystroke with AHK or similar, or remove Edge in an unsanctioned manner that requires deep system fuckery, which will often be reversed on the next system update. There are other links within the system settings dialogues that do this too.

At that point I'd call it mandatory.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 2 points 4 months ago

Unless you want to fix your computer abd clean the windows off.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 2 points 4 months ago

I do actually. It's just a lot of work that I haven't had time or energy for. Not everybody has the spoons to switch to linux.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

Honestly, with a super used friendly distro like mint or Ubuntu, or even pop, its not actually harder than windows, it's just pve instead of PvP when you have trouble; it feels like teamwork and learning rather than being fucked with like windows always seems to.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I have heard that before, to be quite honest.

My resolve is building for a new attempt, but I have repeatedly tried for over 15 years now to make this switch, and still it remains the domain of servers and raspberry pis in my house.

The problem is not getting the base system running to a reasonable level. It is fixing the slew of problems that occur when I try to do literally anything beyond web browsing and text editing. Every single new program or piece of hardware seems to take hours of investigation and troubleshooting.

Did you know that the Ubuntu I installed on my second machine can't play MP4s at all? Like... the default program just refuses to play anything. I've tried to fix it but it's not an issue anyone else seems to have. It's that broken out of the box. And this is after I got Samba working which took several attempts when I had the energy, and I cannot face the notion of installing another flavour of linux just to go through all that again and find out whatever new issues there are, so I guess the server I use to capture footage just can't play back that footage. Great.

One of the hardest transitions will be my Pimax VR headset, which runs on a proprietary program made in house by the sole hardware manufacturer that interfaces with SteamVR and only runs on Windows. The program is temperamental at best without running it through Wine, which I've never heard of anybody successfully doing.

So like, nice idea, but you linux evangelists need to stop being so glib about the switch and understand that the ecosystem just doesn't have the critical mass it needs for switching to be an unambiguous good.

I want to be able to switch. I have read the articles. I have reviewed the flavours. I have trisd the livedisks. I have had a toxic fanboy attack me under a 7 year old stackoverflow thread because my question mentioned using PuTTY. I am a programmer. I have tried for literal decades. It is not. That. Simple.

[-] ericjmorey@discuss.online 1 points 4 months ago

Linux will never be on the cutting edge of consumer technology where you want to exist. But most people don't want to exist on that edge (or can't afford it).

If you want to make Linux work for you, you'd have to accept that you're going to need separate devices (sometimes MacOS, sometimes Windows OS, even iOS or Android OS at times) to work with the newest toys and gadgets. Not even VMs will cut it every time.

People recommending Linux as a primary OS fir home use are a self selected group of people who don't value those new products and exclusive software.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago

It absolutely is on the cutting edge in lots of ways. It can move faster than other systems that have to wait for full releases to make major changes, and those changes don't have to satisfy a board of directors by incorporating the latest buzzword scams. The problem is that it doesn't have critical mass. This works on a similar network effect to what we see in the fediverse. It will just take getting to a tipping point where hardware and software makers can no longer ignore it, and then I think we'll quickly see a change. It's already happened in servers and general hacker gear and maker stuff. It just hasn't quite made it there for the desktop. Who knows how long that will take.

[-] ericjmorey@discuss.online 1 points 4 months ago

Linux certainly has the possibility of being cutting edge in the consumer market but isn't and there's disincentive from a social and economic standpoint to make me confident that it will likely never be. Companies like System76 give me a but of hope though. (Although I suspect that they have long-term plans to adopt RedoxOS as their primary OS eventually.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

So, I haven't ever had trouble playing anything with vlc. Except a .INI once, but there was acid involved.

Yeah proprietary bullshit literally locked to only run on windows could be a problem. Maybe stop buying that garbage? Transition to hardware that isn't proprietary ecosystem trap dog shit, then switch?

My reasoning wasn't that Linux is so much easier than it used to be (though it is) or more functional than it used to be (though it is) its that windows just kept fucking with me and I realized I was spending too much time on it's shit-if I'd paid for it I probably would've put a rock through my monitor. Windows c. 2010 might still he better than Linux, but its not supported by anything anymore, so its off the table.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yes, I can install VLC, but honestly I spend almost no time on that machine, because it is linux and everything it does creates friction. Every time I go back to it it's a coin flip if the program I had to install to configure my mouse & keyboard will actually work or will just break again. So I can't be bothered fixing it at this point. I have it to the point where it barely does what I need and now I am avoiding it.

I was hoping it would act as a gateway to transition everything over, but it just ended up being yet another cautionary tale about relying on a system that is made for and by enthusiasts only.

And sure, I'll just buy another VR headset that I can't currently afford when my other one works just fine. Or maybe I'll do without and one of my main forms of exercise will just be gone. VR is currently notoriously bad on linux, but I guess that's not so different to getting a logitech mouse working, or something else equally basic.

Glad to see linux evangelists are as toxic as ever.

I'm sure you're about to offer to "help" me with this, and just like the stack overflow guy, I'll have to tell you that I would not want help from someone like you.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

I was going to suggest that nothing lasts forever, and by the time your shitty shackled masturbatory aid (seriously, just use a Hitachi, it's cheaper, and you can probably get free shipping if you also order a new HDD; they make good ones) breaks windows will have gone from shit show to shit storm, and you should try again.

See, I'm not saying Linux is easy. Its harder than windows was fifteen years ago. I'm saying windows is getting worse so fast that your data I'd at risk.

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago

Again with the toxicity. You'll forgive me if I leave this conversation now. Well, you probably won't, because of the toxicity, but a reasonable person would.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 1 points 4 months ago

I think you're being unreasonably offended here, and I'm sure there's a reason but I can't figure it out. Being asked to change, like its something I'm asking you to do for my sake? Secret crush on bill gates? Linux killed your dog?

[-] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Nobody owes you a reply, and this is the last one you will get. If you can't figure out what's wrong just from reading the way you write, there's obviously nothing I can do to help you.

this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2024
377 points (100.0% liked)

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