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submitted 1 year ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/news@beehaw.org

A massive operation is under way to find and save a stricken vessel and its passengers. As time passes, anxious families and friends wait with growing fear. The US coastguard, Canadian armed forces and commercial vessels are all hunting for the Titan submersible, which has gone missing with five aboard on a dive to the wreck of the Titanic in the north Atlantic. The UK’s Ministry of Defence is also monitoring the situation.

It is hard to think of a starker contrast with the response to a fishing boat which sank in the Mediterranean last week with an estimated 750 people, including children, packed onboard. Only about 100 survived, making this one of the deadliest disasters in the Mediterranean. Greece and the EU blame people smugglers, who overcrowd boats and abuse those aboard them. But both have profound questions to answer about their own role in such disasters. Activists say authorities were repeatedly warned of the danger this boat faced, hours before it went down, but failed to act.

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[-] Lowbird@beehaw.org 63 points 1 year ago

I'm glad this article exists; this has been bothering me. Specifically, I'm bothered that, while aljazeera featured the stories about the boat of refugees as and after it was happening, I haven't seen it crop up in U.S. news at all. One of the deadliest disasters in the Mediterranean, and... crickets.

Then a submersible with a handful of white rich lads gets lost and it's all over the papers and all anyone can talk about.

To be fair, part of this is the fact that the submersible story has a lot of wild and novel details to it, plus the novel "oh god imagine being trapped in a submarine" fear factor, that make it great for getting attention and clicks, but nevertheless.

The other part of it is that people see "poor, brown refugees drowned at sea in the Mediterranean, once again" and feel completely disconnected from that and glaze over. The refugees don't get the same automatic "what would that feel like if it were me" empathizing, and the situation doesn't get the same scrutiny of rescue details and chances and what exactly went wrong that resulted in hundreds and hundreds of innocent people drowning at sea.

And they were in a BOAT. They knew where the boat was. The boat was reachable. They just let them die.

It's true that we're talking about different countries and different organizations, but this is a recurring pattern. Refugees are being systematically and repeatedly allowed to drown when they are very near to people who could help them. Other people get prioritized and rescued like they're kings.

[-] PotentiallyAnApricot@beehaw.org 30 points 1 year ago

Systematically being the key word. There is no way to claim that what keeps happening to boats carrying migrants is accidental. It's a policy decision. So awful.

[-] Exilfranke@feddit.de 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is a policy decision. And sadly, it is a pretty popular one. Rescuing these people would mean that the rescuing country needs to grant them asylum. Doing so would incentivize more refugees to choose this dangerous path as it would be a passage to Europe.

This is one of the reasons why the far right political parties in Italy are so successful. They promise Italians that they would stop this type of immigration. And the rest of the EU accepts this quietly because it solves their own issues with immigration.

[-] PotentiallyAnApricot@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

It's infuriating. I think that tacitly allowing people to be hurt or die for personal/political gain is one of the worst things a human being can do. And yet so many people - from fascists to liberals- seem to be on board. It's so normalized. It's the same at every border. Completely preventable. Completely unnecessary. Insane that "I don't want those people moving here so let them die instead" is seen as a normal and politically centrist take.

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[-] Kempeth@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago

while I certainly think the affluency of the victims is a factor it would be disingenuous to claim this is ALL it is.

For any regular occurrence, at some point apathy sets in. Car accidents are just not interesting to report after the hundreth time. If there were a dozen lost subs near the Titanic every year, I'm sure the story would lose it's luster too.

There's also the aspect that refugees are an ongoing and much more complex issue. You can't just save one ship of refugees. There will be another one in short order. And if you do save them all the question is what do you do with them? At the very least that'll cost you money. At worst it'll cost you political power. Are you going to realize what these people have gone through to get them to a point where they are willingly face these risks? Realizing that maybe something should be done about that is even costlier. And depending on the political landscape in your country most will just consider this "a self solving problem" anyway.

This is not to excuse what we're seeing. But we can't pretend that the stories should be covered the same. They aren't the same. One is much easier to cover than the other.

[-] crius@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

I see your point but just for the sake of discussion, try and change "refugees" with "people".

You should notice how all the other considerations simply are not worth the electricity used to transmit them on your screen.

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[-] ivy@fedi196.gay 40 points 1 year ago

I'm so tired of governments bending over backwards to help billionaires while ignoring average people

I'm so tired of valuing people based on their net worth. these double standards are disappointing and honestly disgusting. I'm disgusted by our current politics and economics

[-] demonmariner@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

Well, on the bright side, if there is a successful rescue the rescuees can afford to pay the bill. And they should be held to it.

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[-] crankylinuxuser@midwest.social 33 points 1 year ago

One group is full of hundred-millionaires. The other group is full of destitute people fleeing their home countries due to horrific conditions.

Given that capitalism does put a price on people, that's obviously the metric used to determine who to help.

[-] PotentiallyAnApricot@beehaw.org 25 points 1 year ago

Genuinely surprised by some of the comments here. This is worth discussing and I'm glad the writer of this article drew attention to it.

[-] s_s@lemmy.one 24 points 1 year ago

Today, you could drown an entire cruiseship of Romani and most of Europe would cheer.

[-] AllonzeeLV@vlemmy.net 22 points 1 year ago

Our civilization doesn't value human life. It values capital. Capitalism turns us against one another.

[-] Picard@beehaw.org 20 points 1 year ago

On the same vein it would be very easy to say that media, the Guardian included, almost never report on the (weekly or even daily this time of year) rescues that the Greek (and other) navy does successfully carry out. Nor, of course, are the effects of the migration wave ever discussed with appropriate nuance except a one liner under a picture of a local saying "Mr Spyros the baker said he feels for the migrants but he dislikes what's happening to his neighborhood."

They only find space on their front page when they can point a finger at some huge disaster with a tragic photo to illustrate and shock normal people.

Pelt me with stones if you must. I am Greek and live in Athens. The amount of people that have come here and are going around downtown and everywhere else with basically nothing to do in their lives and getting by with benefits if they're lucky (and very often resort to crime as poor people will do anywhere) is unsustainable. If you read opinion polls there is now a very large majority of the population that think this. Even those who vote left have completely come around in the last years. So don't be too hasty with your conclusions. This is not about lacking empathy or humanity. It's just realizing the objective reality that has taken shape around you.

Greece has been blamed for this recent tragedy because the land borders are guarded, which presumably leads to people smugglers sending more people on ships to Italy. But what are we even supposed to do? Just let the country become an open air camp of no prospect poor people, while destroying our society in the process? How does this help anyone? Does anyone think Greece, the recently bankrupt economy, can magically provide for millions of destitute people? Or that if the EU for whatever reason decides all are welcome and thus implicitly invites literally millions, it will not result in widespread social unrest? We already see far right gaining almost everywhere. Here we had literal nazis in parliament and they are currently regrouping after being put in jail.

And there are other questions on this whole issue. Look at UN statistics and see that the majority of people arriving here are not fleeing from Syria. They're from Pakistan and Afghanistan among other places. Why is the answer to those countries' problems to settle their populations in Greece and Europe? Why is no other place on earth willing or expected to help them? How realistic is this as a solution when the number of people who would like to move to Europe (from Asia, Middle East and Africa) is larger than the population of Europe itself? Also, is Saudi Arabia for example only able to house Cristiano Ronaldo? They have resources and are closer geographically and culturally to a lot of these people.

This is just one person's opinion (although very common) but uncontrolled migration can yield even worse results (nightmarish in fact) in the long run than what we're seeing right now. And what we're seeing right now is already terrible. I wish there was a more viable solution than the people stay at home and make those places better to live in, which is just unlikely.

[-] ellabella@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nah, I do agree it's a much more common take than people realize. Another POV I've seen was on the other end of this spectrum, when Malaysia actually offered to open up their borders to refugees years ago and the refugees....refused lol. Apparently they prefer to get into South Korea instead. I've never seen a faster 180° change in opinions regarding refugees like that time.

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[-] Auzy@beehaw.org 20 points 1 year ago

Here in Australia, honestly, it's disappointing that we're still treating refugees as criminals and turning them back. Who cares if people visit the country. It shouldn't be too much work to identify them

[-] Summarizer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago

This is a summary of the posted article (I'm a bot).

US coastguard, Canadian armed forces and commercial vessels are all hunting for the Titan submersible, which has gone missing with five aboard. The UK’s Ministry of Defence is also monitoring the situation. It is hard to think of a starker contrast with the response to a fishing boat which sank in the Mediterranean last week with an estimated 750 people, including children, packed onboard. Greece and the EU blame people smugglers, who overcrowd boats and abuse those aboard them. Both have profound questions to answer about their own role in such disasters.

How do I work?

[-] Skelectus@suppo.fi 21 points 1 year ago

I see the reddit bots have started migrating

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[-] itchy_lizard@feddit.it 8 points 1 year ago
[-] nan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 1 year ago

Shame on the US coast guard for failing to help in the Mediterranean.

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 46 points 1 year ago

this is an incredibly comical misinterpretation of what the article is saying, and i'm sure you realize that.

[-] nan@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Absolutely.

I just find this sort of article kind of pointless. Response to a situation in one place was drastically different than a response in a completely different place involving completely different people and agencies with their own different priorities. I don’t think it’s all that illuminating in any global way, except it shows the priorities in one of those places aren’t great. A commentary on the same agency (or even country) responding differently to rich and poor would be more meaningful, but I think the US Coast Guard was pretty proactive when Cuban refugees were crossing in makeshift rafts (a commentary on the difference between US and Greece in those much more similar situations would be interesting, but wouldn’t hit the rich/poor or anti-immigrant angle).

[-] Thrashy@beehaw.org 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's fair as far as it goes, but there are analogous behaviors on the US side of things as well. This is just another instance in which the US government has gone to incredible lengths to rescue tourists who got in over their heads (Wendover Productions touched on this in recent video about the National Park System, if you're interested) at the same time that Border Patrol and local vigilantes have been recorded sabotaging water caches left as life-saving measures for migrants crossing arid parts of the southern border. That's a pretty clear indication of which sorts of lives our society thinks matter, and just as in the Mediterranean it more or less comes down to "which ones look and talk like I do?" rather than "which ones are most deserving of the limited resources available to help them?"

[-] azureeight@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago

We are a global people. We could do more, and we actively don't. We should all be ashamed and just because it makes you feel uncomfortable or helpless doesn't mean you have to rationalize the shame of our species.

We need to face it if we'll ever change it.

[-] alyaza@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

I don’t think it’s all that illuminating in any global way, except it shows the priorities in one of those places aren’t great.

but that unto itself is kind of important, is it not? these are social tragedies which do not need to happen--but they're basically allowed to happen by a mixture of social apathy, lack of scrutiny, and inhuman social and political incentives. you're demonstrating why this is illuminating, and why we should talk about it: because the alternatives you describe can happen and are happening but don't with certain groups, or from certain countries.

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[-] itchy_lizard@feddit.it 10 points 1 year ago

Billionaires lives matter more, obviously /s

[-] spark947@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Lemmy is officially not ready to take over reddit until I see people discussing the cardi b, blink 182 loving stepson angle to this story being discussed.

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[-] Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago

It's simple human psychology. We get all excited about a child that fell into a well but when it's 10 children or 100 we just care less and less even if the group includes the one kid we started with. I guess it's kinda sad but also not at all surprising

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this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2023
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