79
bell hooks got it (slrpnk.net)

“The first act of violence that patriarchy demands of males is not violence toward women. Instead patriarchy demands of all males that they engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If an individual is not successful in emotionally crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal men to enact rituals of power that will assault his self-esteem.”

That bell hooks quote was the one that made me realize that feminism wasn’t just about bringing women into equality with men, but about protecting everyone from the violence of patriarchy.

top 12 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My alcoholic mother slapped me when I was having a mental health crisis and told me to "become a man".

That might still be the most emotionally hurtful moment I've ever experienced, though there's some very strong competition.

Now, my father was an awful man too, but I honestly don't feel it was patriarchy that guided her hand.

Certainly had to do a lot of psychic self-mutilation, though.

[-] Phoenixbouncing@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

This.

Whilst traditional gender normes are hurting everyone ("be a man", "smile more") I really don't feel that "patriarchy" and it's evident undertone of finger pointing are the main cause.

I'd go even further and say that what people call "patriarchy" is really more of an emergent phenomenon coming from those underlying gender normes.

[-] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago

bell hooks explicitly address the violence women inflict on their sons:

patriarchal mothers who have rage at grown men act out with sons. They may either force the son to enter into an inappropriate relationship in which he must provide for her the emotional connection grown men deny her or engage in emotional abuse in which the son is constantly belittled and shamed. These acts of patriarchal violence serve to reinforce in the mind of boy children that their violence toward females is appropriate. It simply feels like justifiable vengeance. Feminist idealization of mother-hood made it extremely difficult to call attention to maternal sadism, to the violence women enact with children, especially with boys. And yet we know that whether it is a consequence of power dynamics in dominator culture or simply a reflection of rage, women are shockingly violent toward children. This fact should lead everyone to question any theory of gender differences that suggests that women are less violent than men.

Hoenstly, The Will to Change addresses every popular argument about masculinity I've seen, and defines and explains the role of patriarchy. Fantastic book. 100/100. Read it. I should've read it years ago.

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Seems like it requires mental gymnastics to trace that back to patriarchy rather than human behaviour in a more general sense.

[-] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago

How so? Do you think that women are generally violent towards their children? Isn't that in direct opposition to how women are often portrayed?

[-] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't believe the behaviour itself stems from patriarchy, I think it is just human behaviour. That's the bit that feels kind of convoluted. But I understand that to the true believer, this is a matter of faith, so I'm not here to change anybody's mind.

[-] PeepinGoodArgs@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

This is not a matter of faith lol. I am no zealot.

I'm curious as to how you understand human nature, though.

[-] ttpphd@mastodon.social 12 points 1 year ago

@dylanmorgan

The Will to Change made me feel more seen and understood than anything Warren Farrell ever wrote. It's a must read.

this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
79 points (94.4% liked)

Men's Liberation

1817 readers
1 users here now

This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.


Rules

Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people


Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.



Be productive


Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.

Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:

  • Build upon the OP
  • Discuss concepts rather than semantics
  • No low effort comments
  • No personal attacks


Assume good faith


Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.



No bigotry


Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.



No brigading


Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.



Recommended Reading

Related Communities

!feminism@beehaw.org
!askmen@lemmy.world
!mensmentalhealth@lemmy.world


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS