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Germany and US Are in a Race to the Bottom on Suppressing Pro-Palestine Speech (truthout.org)

submitted 2 weeks ago by schizoidman@lemm.ee to c/world@lemmy.world

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cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/49138514

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[-] febra@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Germany is a disgrace.

[-] Realitaetsverlust@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 weeks ago

Thats weird to hear when there was a pro-palestine demonstration 10 min away from here lmao

[-] Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

The great thing is, it is a race in which everyone wins!

[-] Neon@lemmy.world -1 points 2 weeks ago

jesus fucking christ, this is taking on Q-Anon levels of "global conspiracy"

[-] thoralf@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 2 weeks ago

Utter nonsense, at least for Germany. I have a fair chance to meet a pro-Palestine demonstration when I enter any bigger city.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

You seeing protests != Protests not being suppressed

Lots of things go into suppression like people getting arrested and held without any charges. Activists and their families and colleagues getting harrassed or intimidated by police or Israeli organizations. News organizations framing protests and their message in misleasing ways to sway public opinion against them.

I am from Germany and all of those are absolutely happening so wtf are you talking about? Thats also exactly what the article talks about so are you just lazy or what?

Germany is (at least politically) after the US the biggest defender of Israels "right to defend" genocide excuse. In terms of open hostility and police crackdowns the UK might come before tho.

[-] Womble@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Huh? You think that the UK, which has affirmed that it will honour ICC warrants (i.e. arrest Netanyahu if he came to the UK), is somehow more pro-Israel than Germany?

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Honouring ICC warrants is the bare minimum, if you dont do that, then you are just a lawless oligarchy driven state like the USA. But yes the UK had a couple very recent examples of extreme police overreach in using anti terror laws to threaten and hold protesters and their family members.

Also affirming that they will do something is not the same as doing that thing. Looking at their treatment of Assange and climate protestors, they arent really to be trusted when it comes to human right and due process.

[-] Womble@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Right, I'm not trying to portray the UK as a beacon of goodness, but Germany has gone far beyond in suppressing any dissent towards Israel and noticeably has not said that they would respect an ICC warrant, just that they would "examine" it.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I mean if you were to see this as a normal criminal case then it would be very stupid to public declare that you plan to arrest someone if they come to your country. If they actually intend to have him go to prison for his crimes then they would stay silent or even make it look like they would not arrest him. I dont believe that this is what they are doing, but assuming the opposite is also not too logical.

I dont want all the ICC member states to say "yes we will arrest him" i want them to actually do it and for that to happen, everyone should just stay silent and wait for Netanyahu to get careless. Laws shouldnt have to be reaffirmed publicly everytime they get used.

[-] Womble@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

If Germany wasnt a country that bent over backwards to please Israel and shelter it from critisism, maybe that could be the case. But instead it is the country that barred the rector of Glasgow university from entering Shengen as he (A British-Palestinian surgeon) was going to give a talk on the conditions he had witnessed in gaza and has repeatedly banned pro Palestein demonstrations and symbols.

I see no reason to assume its refusal to state that it would uphold an ICC warrant against Netanyahu (as more vocally pro Palestein countries such as Spain and Ireland have done) is anything other than not being willing to uphold it.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 weeks ago

I agree that they dont seem willing to uphold it. I just wanted to share an angle to it that i was thinking about

[+] thoralf@discuss.tchncs.de -12 points 2 weeks ago

I have yet to see anything like this.

Of course, when you start to wave a Hamas-flag, the fun is over. And that I do not count as suppression.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have yet to see anything like this.

Then you werent looking

Just read the article ffs they arent writing this for fun. Its not the best article but it gets across the point that Germany is on the wrong side of history once again.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 4 points 2 weeks ago

The judge ruled that the phrase, “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free,” condoned a crime and “could only be understood as a denial of Israel’s right to exist.” Mirroring the U.S. but taking it one step further, the latest German resolution also calls for the expulsion of students responsible for “antisemitic acts” in schools and universities. U.S. politicians agree. In December, the House passed a resolution condemning antisemitism, which deemed the slogan “a rallying cry for the eradication of the State of Israel and the Jewish people.” In reality, the phrase emerged in the 1960s as a call for equal rights within a democratic secular state, but that hasn’t stopped the phrase from becoming a lightning rod for accusations of antisemitism, particularly since Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.

Legendary Jesus was born in Palestine. He advocated feeding the hungry, healing the sick, clothing the naked and caring for prisoners. Jesus was a communist antisemitic.

[-] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago

Jesus is irrelevant to this discussion.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago

I disagree.

The German narrative revolves heavily around creating some idea of a shared "Judeo-Christian" cultural history in opposition to the "Islamization" by evil Arabs. It goes as far as trying to shif the blame for the holocaust and German antisemitism onto Arabs, ignoring the millenia of christian antisemitism in Europe and the prosperity and safety of Jews under muslim rule during the same time.

One of the core narratives of Israel is the claim they are coming back to land supposedly theirs and stolen from them by the Palestinians. But the reality is that the people never left. They became Christian and later Muslim, some stayed Jews.

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Do you consider Palestine flags to be hamas flags? Because you get the same treatmnet when you wave a Palestine flag as if it was a hamas flag. Kind of like how Israel treats every Palestinian over the age of 4 as a Hamas member.

[-] thoralf@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 2 weeks ago

Never seen any police member even blinking when a Palestine flag is shown. It’s usually a dozen flags. And I have never noticed this to be a problem.

[-] fantasty@programming.dev 4 points 2 weeks ago

I have been active for a long time and the amount of censorship has escalated. We always had issues with being denied rooms, being canceled, being silenced, I could never issue my pro-Palestine views without fear of being fired. But the least I could do was going to protests peacefully and wearing a kuffiyeh in school without being disciplined. Now I am honestly afraid to go to protests because of all the police brutality and children are being disciplined for wearing kuffiyes or football Trikots.

This is the first step into authoritarianism. And maybe you say it’s nonsense now but at the speed we’re heading into fascism in Germany it’s only a matter of time until other groups can take their turn. What if CDU takes an even harder stance on abortion, criminalizes LGBTQ people? Now if your kid is LGTBQ or your daughter needs an abortion, good luck.

The amount of repression these protesters are facing should scare all of us, no matter if we’re actively involved in protesting against this genocide enabled by our own government or not.

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 0 points 2 weeks ago

what do you expect from a news site called "truth out"?

They're obviously a propaganda paper meant to make you feel like you're one of the few "konwers" and "truth-seekers" in a world full of "blind sheep" and "gloabl conspiracies"

You are absolutely correct that this is utter nonsense.

this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2024

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