this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024
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How to discuss participation in the US military? (hexbear.net)
submitted 2 months ago by SweetLava@hexbear.net to c/indigenous@hexbear.net
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This is about the fact that indigenous people make up a disproportionate amount of the military population

But when talking to people in general, how do you open dialogue with not just indigenous, but also black and Latino/Chicano veterans and younger people trying to join? A lot of people are lured in by poverty, others are looking for discipline or they have strict families who try to force/impose it.

Is there any advice on having these conversations? I believe it's important to be respectful and mature about it, to not go on lecturing and complaining.

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[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

a lot of them are joining the military because it's the only viable option for a decent future; ESPECIALLY if live on a bad rez.

the tohono o'odham have had some luck when the state (AZ) did some capital investments in the form of business loans that created jobs (casinos); i worked with someone who benefited from it and she told me all about it back in the late 1990's. (i bet the state has changed its tune since it voted for trump the last 3 times and, last i heard, all of the rez's in the state are struggling rn).

so maybe a message of jobs or other opportunities besides the military would be helpful?

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago

Frankly, participation is its own punishment, especially if you're non-white

When talking to people who don't care about the victims of militarism or the consequences of their actions, the only course of action is to appeal to their self-interest and trust me it doesn't take much to get service members to recognize they're literally being destroyed physically and mentally, again especially if they're non-white

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

https://youtu.be/c4MBEEHhdQY

White guy, so pardon me if my input isn't welcome in the comm.

Having been in I can at least speak from experience telling folks not to go in and I share all the ways the military fucked me over. Also, I point out that you're not fighting for your country, you're fighting for you government and most nobody likes the government.

For folks that are in, I don't really waste my time. They've already got brain worms and I don't find confrontational methods productive. I try the same way I do with everyone else; get them hooked on leftist slop they can relate to.

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Can you please recommend any good videos or media that accurately critiques it from a relatively apolitical perspective? Just mainly in terms of how much it sucks for the typical person or how the military can fuck people over?

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

OH! I haven't watched it yet, but this is on my list and might be worth checking out.

Sir! No, Sir!

Sir! No Sir! is a documentary film about the anti-war movement within the ranks of the United States Military during the Vietnam War. It consists in part of interviews with Vietnam veterans explaining the reasons they protested the war or even defected. The film tells the story of how, from the very start of the war, there was resentment within the ranks over the difference between the conflict in Vietnam and the "good wars" that their fathers had fought. Over time, it became apparent that so many were opposed to the war that they could speak of a movement.

[–] Florist@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do you know where to find the full documentary?

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I'll think on it, I'm afraid I don't have anything off the top of my head. I don't tend to watch that sort of stuff anymore. There's that joke about how America will send their people to kill and ten years later make movies about how it made them sad and that's totally true. Basically about a decade after every major "conflict" there will be movies where the main character has had their life ruined by being in the military, it's just a question of whether they blame the military or the person.

Hmmm, idk if anyone else remembers, but shortly following Occupy Wall Street there was a veteran that went viral giving a really good speech (outside? in a parking lot? at a protest?) about why people shouldn't join. I think he might've been in Cindy Sheehan's circle? There's also always plenty of news stories out there about Veterans being screwed over for medical care, Student loans, etc.

This tends to hit pretty hard.

https://np.reddit.com/r/television/comments/2hrntm/last_week_tonight_with_john_oliver_drones_hbo/ckvmq7m/?context=3

[–] SweetLava@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I don't think there's anything more unifying for veterans than shit talking the VA, honestly. Great intentions, awful execution.

That aside, I don't have the time to check rn, but is that speech from the guy from that one documentary "National Bird"?

Also, dark humor from a bygone era:

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That aside, I don't have the time to check rn, but is that speech from the guy from that one documentary "National Bird"?

I believe this is the speech you're thinking of. Which is pretty good too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1eRiM9Bh6I

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

That aside, I don't have the time to check rn, but is that speech from the guy from that one documentary "National Bird"?

Looking at the trailer, I don't think so. I wanna say it was a Desert Storm vet?

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago

I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

Link 1:

Link 2:

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't have the link but there was a video on here a while ago of someone asking different soldiers something like "what would you say to your recruiter if you saw them again?" and all of them are reply "why did you lie to me" or "burn in hell" etc

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think this was the guy but he must have made more of these as I don't think this was the one

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Lol, we can't win! data-laughing

[–] Enjoyer_of_Games@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

not trying to be ungrateful, I just mean I can remember seeing another one that was much more decidedly anti-military that would be more fit for purpose of showing a potential recruit

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Lol, no worries, It wasn't taken that way at all! stalin-approval

[–] SweetLava@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Have you ever seen that one movie "National Bird"? Far from apolitical, unfortunately. It's about some wistleblowers, documentary style. I believe at least one was under surverillance or had an issue with the FBI. I believe this is how I found out you can't discuss certain "national security" details even in therapy, and that you can be placed in a mental hospital if needed for OPSEC/NatSec reasons - but I could be wrong, that might be a different movie/documentary

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago

This seems like an interesting topic to pay attention to. I'll be poking my head in to see what people say a few times over the day

[–] D61@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

You can try to chastize their decision but without some other option, your best bet would be to get a notebook full of veterans bitching to read to them.