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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Menu@slrpnk.net to c/lemmy@lemmy.ml

The screenshot shows the recommendations from https://join-lemmy.org/.

Still being federated with exploding-heads does not mean the instance supports them. But it means that shit-heads are allowed to take part in the discussions on their communities. They do intoxicate the discussions we will have. They will attack minorities. Maybe you will not be harassed by them, more vulnerable people will be. They are allowed to moderate communities on these instances. Exploding-heads members actively guide young and unknowing people to their hateful instance.

They try to start discussions about the holocaust https://sh.itjust.works/post/227268. They create communities only to crosspost exploding-heads content https://lemmy.world/c/pharma They take over discussions against them https://exploding-heads.com/comment/132189 "WHY are vulnerable people joining a decentralized system? Isnt this why you want a closed, not for public eyes community?"

This was a link to exploding-heads, because when someone copies a permalink of a comment from them on another instance, it will be a link to their instance.

Are we building a place where vulnerable people are welcome and safe or are we building a place where nazis are welcome and safe?

They want you to block them, they comment that everywhere. They block people who are in favor of defederating them https://sh.itjust.works/post/225714 When their opponents won't see them anymore, they can harass and recruit without being noticed.

Blocking will not solve the problem. They will spread even when you close your eyes.

M̶a̶y̶b̶e̶ t̶h̶i̶s̶ w̶a̶s̶ n̶o̶t̶ d̶o̶n̶e̶ i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶t̶i̶o̶n̶a̶l̶l̶y̶, b̶u̶t̶ n̶o̶w̶ there is a post with a list of 'health communities on Lemmy' with the first entry guiding to exploding heads. https://lemmy.world/post/396561

It is still possible that some of the mentioned instances do support them. The owner of sh.itjust.works says that because of “free speech” all other instances would be allowed. It is suspicious to me that his line is drawn only for lemmygrad https://sh.itjust.works/comment/130474

The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.

I’d like to also point out that the lemmygrad instance has far more blocked instances than what is currently blocked here. Maybe you can create a post on that instance to see what that’s all about and report back?

At the same time they seem to ignore the call and vote to defederate with exploding-heads https://sh.itjust.works/post/433483.

They rejected to delete The_Donald from sh.itjust.works until they feared to get isolated from the other instances: https://lemmy.ml/post/1467310. They where aware of The_Donald and ignored early warnings. (https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/266248). TD was more important to them than keeping the only mod of their 4th biggest community c/patientgamers (https://sh.itjust.works/post/291747, https://sh.itjust.works/post/388922)

Since The_Donald was removed, I did not find more racist content on the mentioned servers. That is part their tactics. They act harmless but recruit to their instance, attract likeminded people and chase others away. Discussions on sh.itjust.works about such topics are very toxic already, soon they might be able to do more harm.

(My research is very limited, as i could not search for all exploding-heads member content on other instances by entering their domain. I know there are nice communities on sh.itjust.works.)

What can be done? On joinmastodon.org there is a Mastodon Server Covenant with very few useful rules, one of them is "Active moderation against racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia". https://joinmastodon.org/covenant It would be a first step to implement these rules for join-lemmy.org. At least instances that want to be recommended on there should have to agree to that rule.

More actions should be taken now. Please make suggestions. Things will only become more complicated. The next reddit wave is incoming.

For those who did not already know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

https://www.upworthy.com/bartender-explains-why-he-swiftly-kicks-nazis-out-of-his-punk-bar-even-if-theyre-not-bothering-anyone

This is not the first time new platforms face these problems, do we really have to repeat the same mistakes?

-Share/crosspost

-Contact admins

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[-] Percy@lemmy.one 8 points 1 year ago

As a lemmy.one user I will move to somewhere else after bringing this up. Any recommended places to move to?

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[-] HRDS_654@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Here's the thing, while I don't think Nazi views should be supported this is a general instance and as such there are going to be a lot of shitty people here, Nazi's included. The strength of the fediverse is that we can make our own instance "with blackjack and hookers" so to speak. There are already instances, in fact, that are a lot more strict in who they allow. Again, this is not a support for these views as I don't support hate for anyone. It's the paradox of tolerance dictates that the intolerant will eventually take over, which is why we cannot be tolerant of fascism, hate, Nazi's, etc.

[-] Tetreo@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago

bless our lords at Sopuli for pre-removing these apparent EH people before I even knew they existed <3

[-] underisk@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

There’s no feasible way to stop people of a specific ideology from using an open source piece of software. You say blocking isn’t the answer but I’m not sure what more you can expect. Even if you invent some kind of automated Nazi detector, what action can it enforce beyond banning or blocking?

The most realistic solution I can think of is letting instances or users subscribe to curated blacklists. Something akin to Adblock or email server spam blacklists.

A thing you can do apart from blocking is talking about it and raising awareness.Thight balancing though with doing "outrage marketing" for or making a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you are engaged, you could document malicous behaviour from them, so they can't work in the shadows and their real intends are widely known. Truth is: few people like Nazis

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[-] wer2@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Thank you for working hard at making this a place I like to be.

[-] skiba@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

I think I am missing something here, can someone explain a few terms for me by chance?

What the hell does Fediverse mean? What the hell does Federated mean? What the hell does Defederated mean?

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 year ago

Let's start with federation. Federation is a concept where in two socially enabled sites can send eachother updates about hosted content so that users of one site can see content from the other without leaving their preferred site. Defederation is when a site elects to no longer send or receive updates to another site. The fediverse is a vast topology of many sites that use a shared protocol to federate with eachother

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[-] Frikisada@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Shit, to what server should I move that doesn't federate with nazis? Idc how they call themselves these days, you know what I mean with nazis

Also I see the name lemmygrad thrown around, what's the story with them?

The questions aren't specifically for OP

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 year ago

Lemmygrad is a pro-authoritarian socialist instance

As far as instances that don't federate with exploding heads, there's sopuli.xyz, beehaw.org, slrpnk.net, and Lemmy.dbzer0.com

The first two are general purpose instances. Sopuli is kinda the most traditionally run instance. Its actively moderated, but its unlikely to defederate from an instance just because its big and moderating traffic from it is more than they can handle. Beehaw DOES defederate from instances that generate more traffic than they can manage. This is where my primary account is because the moderation style of "make the community a pleasant place to be regardless of the popularity of other instances' popularity" is definitively my speed.

Slrpnk and dbzer0 are focused instances. Slrpnk is focused on ecological friendliness, sustainability, and making the physical world a more survivable space. They describe themselves as not trying to create a Utopian (impossibly idealistic) society, but rather a eutopian (acheivably idealistic) society. Dbzer0 is focused on digital anarchism. The slogan on their instance admin's website alludes to the 90s slogan "You wouldn't download a car" by effectively saying "yes I would, and I intend to." I would say their mission is also eutopian in nature, but less focused on making our physical world more sustainable, but instead on the idea that the world would be more diverse and interesting if we put everything, and I mean EVERYTHING into the public domain. I'm not 100% sure I agree, but I definitively respect the ethos and the dedication to it. I guess what I'm saying is check it out, here them out, they're not harmful or abusive. They're filled with convictions, and I'd probably enjoy hanging out with them

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Regarding the authoritarianism question. It is impossible not to be authoritarian. If anything I suggest reading the short pamphlet On Authority by Frederick Engels.

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[-] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Also I see the name lemmygrad thrown around, what’s the story with them?

Lemmygrad.ml is an instance for Marxist-Leninists and other Socialists who are broadly pro-AES (Actually Existing Socialism, i.e. the USSR, PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, East Germany, etc.) and anti-West. Criticism of AES is fine; but the assumption is that you're there because you think AES is better than Actually Existing Capitalism. If you've ever heard of podcasts like TrueAnon or The Deprogram (or even Chapo Traphouse, to some extent, though they're more "ML-sympathetic" than "Outright Marxist-Leninists"), it'll give you a general idea of what sort of politics they're about.

Lemmygrad is where Leftist Redditors go when their favorite subs (/r/ChapoTrapHouse, /r/MoreTankieChapo, /r/FULLCOMMUNISM, /r/GenZedong) get banned or quarantined.

I'm not a big Lemmy-head, but I saw this post on lemmygrad so I assume that means your instance is federated with lemmygrad.

[-] Frikisada@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Let's say I'm technically affiliated to the biggest ML party of the country where I come from, am I going to find marxists, or is it more of an American leftist thing?

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[-] Void_Sloth@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I think most lemmy devs are focused on preparing for the expected surge of new users on July 1st. I suspect after that they will have more time to turn there attention to issues like this.

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this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
195 points (80.8% liked)

Lemmy

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