this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2025
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[Closed] Moved to !fedigrow@lemmy.zip

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This community has moved to !fedigrow@lemmy.zip

Original sidebar infoTo discuss how to grow and manage communities / magazines on Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed and Sublinks

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cross-posted from: https://crazypeople.online/post/2634649

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/65824884

Hey everyone

We’re really sorry to say this, but lemm.ee will be shutting down on June 30, 2025.

What you need to know

As of now:

  • New user registrations are disabled
  • Creating new communities is disabled

What you should do:

  • You can export your settings at https://lemm.ee/settings to take them with you to another instance.
  • If you're moving to another instance, consider adding a note to your lemm.ee profile with your new username. Your old profile will still be visible from other instances even after we go offline.
  • Alternatively, if you want to delete your lemm.ee profile, now is the best time to do it, so the deletion can federate out before we go offline.
  • If you're one of the folks supporting us with a recurring donation, please remember to cancel it (Ko-Fi donations should have been cancelled automatically already). Our leftover funds are already enough to cover our bills for next month, so we can keep things running without any more support.

Because of how Lemmy is built, everything posted on lemm.ee will still be accessible from other instances, even after we go offline.

Why this is happening

The key reason is that we just don’t have enough people on the admin team to keep the place running. Most of the admin team has stepped down, mostly due to burnout, and finding replacements hasn’t worked out.

The sad reality is that while there are a lot of great people on Lemmy, there are also some who use the platform to attack others, stir up conflict, or actively try to undermine the project. Admins are volunteers who deal with the latter group on a constant basis, this takes a mental toll. Please understand why our admins chose to step down, and be kind to the admins on whatever instance you decide to join.


We know this sucks. We're genuinely sorry it’s ending like this. Thank you to everyone who spent time here and helped make it better.

– lemm.ee team

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[–] Jerry@feddit.online 16 points 2 weeks ago

As a believer in the Fediverse, thank you to all those involved in lemm.ee. You are the pioneers that helped grow this wonderful alternative to corporate-owned media, especially Reddit, and proved it's viable and better. Thanks for all you've done! I wish you the best.

[–] Skiluros@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

Thanks to the lemm.ee team.

Sad to see the instance go down. Lots of good communities go down.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

@Blaze@feddit.org (or is it @Blaze@piefed.social now?), I hate to say "I told you so", but I hope you understand now why I was so against recommending people to create communities on lemm.ee, and I especially hope you don't take this a sign that you should start promoting/directing people to create communities on piefed.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I especially hope you don’t take this a sign that you should start promoting/directing people to create communities on piefed.

Why not? What is the issue with Piefed?

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The same issue of lemm.ee, lemmy.zip, or any other instance you've tried to push so far: they will all crumble under their own weight.

[–] missingno@fedia.io 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If the reason not to create a community on instance X is because instance X may someday disappear... isn't that true of all instances? No one knows what the future may hold for any instance.

Might as well pick somewhere that's present today, and if the worst case scenario happens, we can always move. I would even argue one of the greatest strengths of Fedi is that no matter what happens to any one instance, the network is still standing.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

If the reason not to create a community on instance X is because instance X may someday disappear

That is not the reason, you are getting it backwards.

I am saying that smaller instances will be more likely to disappear if we force them to be destination of communities. If we leave them be only for users, the strain on them will be smaller and the likelihood of them crashing or the admin burning out is smaller.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago (15 children)

@rimu@piefed.social has been offering to host some communities, so it's not like Piefed.social is being forced to host them.

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[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is this true for LW as well?

[–] rglullis@communick.news 3 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

It is less likely for LW because they are (in Fediverse scale) "too big to fail" but still possible.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't think "too big to fail" is as much of a factor here as the fact that LW is not the only FHF platform. Fedihosting Foundation, the non-profit behind Lemmy.World and our other platforms, existed before Lemmy.World already. While the Lemmy moderation team is working mostly independently from the rest of FHF, if the LW admin team disappeared there would still be FHF in a position to search for new admins and probably also at least temporarily step in without requiring to shut down the instance.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is the backing of FHF that significant? Do they have resources for hiring professional admins in case Ruud or Stux decide to say "screw it, I'm out"?

If it does, then why does Stux need to go around panhandling to make rent?

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Ruud and Stux are not the only people involved.

I'm personally only involved in Ruud's side of things (mostly .world instances). Stux' platforms are managed separately, I can't say too much about those. Afaik finances between Ruud's instances and Stux' instances are also separate.

On the .world side, we currently have 6 active members for infra. For moderation, LW currently has 4 active instance admins plus some community team members with elevated privileges. Other .world platforms have moderation separate from LW. We certainly don't have resources to hire professional admins, but I'm sure that we would find a viable solution if Ruud ever wanted to leave things behind. Not all solutions require paying someone a salary for it, which seems to be your implication here.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I’m sure that we would find a viable solution if Ruud ever wanted to leave things behind. Not all solutions require paying someone a salary for it, which seems to be your implication here.

Beyond "raise enough resources to pay a professional", can you think of any solution that is not a variation of "keep finding fresh volunteers to work until they burn out"?

[–] ruud@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't see another option than volunteer-run instances or professionally run instances. And for professionally run instances you need funds (so paid subscriptions) and for volunteer-run instances you need volunteers...

In my experience, as long as there are enough active users, you'll find enough volunteers.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago

There is the co-op model. Membership on https://cosocial.ca/ requires a $50/year contribution and every member has the right to participate in discussions regarding governance. Because of the steep admission price, the instance is relatively small in size and it does not demand a lot from the people working on it.

[–] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

can you think of any solution that is not a variation of “keep finding fresh volunteers to work until they burn out”?

how would paying admins prevent burnout? the only difference i see here is that it is probably easier to find people willing to do it as a paid job than volunteers, but they can both burn out. this would just change it from "keep finding fresh volunteers" to "keep finding fresh job applicants".

[–] rglullis@communick.news 1 points 2 weeks ago

Dealing with the stress of a job is completely different than the stress of some volunteer work, and "keep finding fresh job applicants" is a lot easier (and dare I say, more ethical) than "keep finding fresh volunteers".

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[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

A few people on the LW staff don't seem as active as they were a year ago. Anyway, threads are going to be organized in all the communities, we'll see what people prefer.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 3 points 2 weeks ago (11 children)

Anyway, threads are going to be organized in all the communities, we’ll see what people prefer.

You really think you have no influence on that?

Just as an example: you are still the most prolific poster on the football community at lemm.ee. If I told you that I could go right now and set up a new football instance for it (because you opposed the soccer.forum name, so I got jogabonito.news), would you even consider posting there or would you do what you've done before (created the community on lemm.ee and ignored what was already there?)

[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

I just want to chime in and say that blaze isn't the most prolific poster on !Football@lemm.ee, by a long shot, and I could a name a few people that have been more consistently posting.

He also didn't make the decision to migrate to lemm.ee. The decision to migrate was a community vote, and the instance chosen was decided by me.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago
[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

The first page now has 9 posts by him, 7 by Rose. Whenever I checked the page in the past, the distribution was similar.

As for "making decisions": I am not saying he took any fiat action; I am saying that whenever he revealed his preference or had a chance to exercise any influence in the outcome, he clearly pointed (a) away from LW and (b) away from topic-instance that I was offering.

(Again, I am saying this not as believing I am entitled to anything, just as a matter of fact)

[–] UndercoverUlrikHD@programming.dev 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Here's a post count. Rose, Sabre and Amsterdam have been more consistent throughout the year. 62 out of 83 posts from blaze have been in the last ~20 days, I'm actually surprised that he is consistently posting on !Football@lemm.ee again.

I am saying that whenever he revealed his preference or had a chance to exercise any influence in the outcome, he clearly pointed (a) away from LW and (b) away from topic-instance that I was offering.

That's accurate.

As an admin of a topic based instance, I do believe topic based instances are more sustainable for an admin team to handle. It seems to be the news/political communities that attracts the worst behaviour in people. Having instances that avoid those communities would lessen the moderation load put on a team.

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[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think the fact that you think blaze is relevant in the football community only fuels apprehension towards trusting you to host the community. Please take a step back and be objective.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I am not judging "relevancy" and I am not even trying to convince him to participate. My "beef" with him is simple:

  1. he keeps finding every possible reason to be biased against me (or Communick/the instances I am running) because I openly say that the "donation-based" Fediverse is not sustainable.
  2. he gives the benefit of doubt to any other "free/open" instance which can seem like an underdog against LW
  3. the instances he keeps promoting/defending are invariably failing, supporting my thesis that the "donation-based" Fediverse is not sustainable
  4. When looking at the repeated cases of instances crumbling around, he doubles down on the idea of finding yet-another instance that is small and does not even contemplate the possibility that I might have a point.

Believe me when I say it: I am not interested in using the topic-based instances for personal gain. I want them to be a neutral ground and I wish they could be collectively owned. My "evil plan" is to have an easy way to onboard people coming from Reddit, and my bet is that if the ecosystem grows large enough then I would benefit by offering professional hosting services for the users.

[–] Blaze@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 weeks ago

You are talking to/about me like I owe you anything.

Really not sure where this comes from.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

He feels that community lead instances have a better chance of sustainability. What's wrong with that? You're yet to convince him otherwise. You have a real chance of a proof of concept with soccer.forum and you're too busy arguing rather than making a case as to why it's a good destination to the community that matters. Make it make sense. 😮‍💨

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

He feels that community lead instances have a better chance of sustainability. What’s wrong with that?

There is nothing "wrong" with it. There is nothing "wrong" with someone who believes the earth is flat.

You have a real chance of a proof of concept with soccer.forum

What else besides "keep the server running and post any content that you find relevant" do you think I should do? Last time I asked you, you said "nothing, just keep doing it until they come".

I've done it for a long time. Not for just one instance, but 5, 6, 8, 10... I was posting to !television@metacritics.zone and then I realized that there was one user on the lemm.ee alternative that was taking every single post from reddit and posting as their own. It's too much, and it's not even authentic. My alien.top bots were also mirroring reddit content, but at least I wasn't pretending to be real people behind them.

I'm tired of pushing it. For now, I'd rather just keep doing it for the things that I'm actually interested here. Right now it's mostly NBA. With the Club World Cup I might post more on the football instance. On the summer break I might take some time to write a proper match-threader, but quite honestly I am more excited about the idea of working on my local-first ActivityPub client or on a custom version of Voyager that can browse both Lemmy and Reddit than anything new for the topic-specific instances.

Communick has fortunately got to break-even point, but it is solely thanks to people interested in Matrix. There are a handful of people interested in Lemmy, so I'm going to keep maintaining it. But whatever hopes I had to make this a viable alternative to Reddit have been shattered a while ago.

[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

What else besides "keep the server running and post any content that you find relevant" do you think I should do? Last time I asked you, you said "nothing, just keep doing it until they come".

At this point in time, do a, "I'm the admin of soccer.forum and I would like to offer this community a new home" type post.

[–] rglullis@communick.news 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

A blog post isn't what I'm talking about. Seriously put your ego to the side and come correct. You feeling hurt and in your feelings isn't helping. I'm literally the only one pushing for the move to your instance in a productive manner and your arrogance is trying to fuck that up.

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[–] vatlark@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago
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