Is there a term for someone who is ok with the rest of their body, but wishes they had the other genitals? : lgbtq

[–] squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

How gender dysphoria manifests differs from individual to individual, people experience it in different way, particularly in regards to what someone struggles with: Someone may feel more dysphoric in regards to their face; others in regards to their chest;... And yeah, yearning for different genitals is definitely something that meets the criteria for gender dysphoria.

Does that make you trans, nonbinary, something else? That's something nobody can tell you, because we do not know how strong your feelings are, how much they define you and what you make out of them. That's why the trans community usually avoids telling other people if they are trans or not - or deny anyone that label who claims it.

If you wish to be trans nonbinary, then you are. If you think, these terms do not fit you, then you are not.

Personally I struggled with similar feelings when I was younger. Fast forward and I am now fully transitioning, because I realized it was "not just that." I wanted it all. But that's my way to deal with my feelings. You may chose whatever path suits you and on that path you can try out what this thing or that and cast them off again if they do not feel right. It's a journey of self-discovery and - for better or worse - it's all up to you to discover.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Thank you for replying! I really wasn't expecting so many answers!

That’s why the trans community usually avoids telling other people if they are trans or not - or deny anyone that label who claims it.

Which brings me to my conundrum. Is it wrong to identify with a label if there is no way of achieving it? Like if there is no surgical possibility of transitioning to the body that I want, am I still trans?

Lmao, this is descending into philosophy and you are not obliged to answer. I'm just having existential doubts about my non-existent dick and how it socially defines me.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Which brings me to my conundrum. Is it wrong to identify with a label if there is no way of achieving it? Like if there is no surgical possibility of transitioning to the body that I want, am I still trans?

I can not say this loudly enough, but fuck yes you are!

You don't have to use the label if it doesn't feel right for you, but if it does, it's yours for the taking. Being trans is about who you are, not what you do. Being trans or gender diverse is about saying "This whole sex and gender thing you've assigned me, yeah, it's not working for me". And that's you. What you do with your experiences is up to you, but the experiences are there and they're real, no matter what your external circumstances.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 week ago

Oh wow, why am I crying, haha. Thank you.

I don't know where I'm going to take this but I feel better about it all for knowing it's valid.

[–] randamumaki@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago

Some people are very defensive of the terms they use themselves, or terms in general. Just go with what works for you. Ignore the detractors. You must feel good about your own identity. Nobody else has to; they don't live your life.

[–] moonlight@fedia.io 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Which brings me to my conundrum. Is it wrong to identify with a label if there is no way of achieving it? Like if there is no surgical possibility of transitioning to the body that I want, am I still trans?

It's absolutely not wrong. Labels aren't about what you do with your body, it's about how you feel.

As a nonbinary person, I officially give you permission to identify as nonbinary, trans, or both. 🤝 I like 'nonbinary' because it's really broad and inclusive, and doesn't have some of the connotations that the term 'trans' has (even though nb is under the trans umbrella) I think it would be very reasonable if you decide that it fits you.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I've been secretly thinking of it as nb trans for a while, but I've not really said it to anyone aside from in this thread.

I like non-binary too, it's kinda like 'queer' (my other identifier of choice) because it covers all the bases and allows for freedom of movement within it.

If it comes up socially, I'll probably go with 'non-binary fem' as it's less likely to cause offence, and tbh I don't really want to be talking about my genitals to people.

If I ever get my dick though I'll probably be more comfortable using the trans label outwardly. Though I still have my little trans flag I embroidered on my jeans when things started getting bad here (UK) recently, so it might be assumed anyway by folk that see it I guess. And it definitely is if I'm unable to shave for a few days and stuck somewhere where I have to be seen by people (hospital is not fun).

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The truth is, no one can tell you, except for you, and often we ourselves don't know. There is no single label used to describe what you're talking about. It can be a form of non binary experience, but that involves your experience of gender, it isn't just about the physical. There's "altersex", which doesn't speak to gender at all, but it's not widely understood, and is also popular with transmedicalists who try and gatekeep other folks validity, so it can carry some unwanted assumptions in people who do recognise it.

And honestly, there is the possibility that it's not "just about genitals". There could be more to this than you're willing to admit, even to yourself.

I was similar to you. I'm a trans woman, and I spent so much of my earlier life literally wishing that I was trans specifically so I could access bottom surgery. If I could have had surgery than magically changed me down stairs, but changed nothing else, I'd have jumped at it. But, of course, there was more to it than that, I was just deep in denial... That's not to say your experience will be the same as mine. I just want to raise it as a possibility for you to think about.

It's a lot of words, but honestly, my advice is to just use whatever feels right, but without getting attached to the specific label. Use it as long as it feels right, but if it stops feeling right, give yourself permission to change it. And that's true even if the label you end up with is "cis woman who wants a dick". As long as the label is working for you, rather than against you, it's the right label

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Thank you for replying! This is such a tricky topic to navigate, I really appreciate your input.

I've thought about this a lot and ngl, if I was born male my life would have been a lot easier in many ways (and a lot more difficult in others, obviously), but I'm pretty sure at this point that I likely would have ended up presenting female and getting modified to match my gender (nb female) but keeping my sex intact.

I'm actually quite envious of the women who've achieved this as their final form, but I've not knowingly even met any though.

All the trans women I've known and loved have hated their og anatomy, and I felt like it would be insulting to say that was what I wanted for my body when they fought so hard to get rid of it.

The trans guys I've known over the years have either been shitty people or much younger than me, so I've never bothered to try talking to them about this as they were bullies, or it was inappropriate subject matter for kids I'm tutoring.

I've only known like 5 trans guys though, compared to the 20 something trans women who've been in my life over the years.

Idk, I worry that even if I meet a trans guy I can talk to about this, I'll avoid it anyway as I'd be scared of feeling like I'm insulting their masculinity by wanting something for myself that the surgery just isn't advanced enough yet to provide for actual men like them.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

All the trans women I've known and loved have hated their og anatomy, and I felt like it would be insulting to say that was what I wanted for my body when they fought so hard to get rid of it.

Not at all! What they wanted was bodily autonomy! And that's what you want!

And again, to bring a personal experience in to this, the person who helped me understand who I am, and accept who I am is a trans guy. He was the first trans person I'd ever spoken to, and what struck me was that despite his experience being the "opposite" of mine, he was also the first person I'd ever spoken to who understood what I was saying, who I didn't have to explain myself to. He just got it.

Which is to say, in the gender diverse community, the stuff we have is common is far greater than the differences. The experience of each gender diverse person is unique, but at the same time, just like so many others before them!

I'll avoid it anyway as I'd be scared of feeling like I'm insulting their masculinity by wanting something for myself that the surgery just isn't advanced enough yet to provide for actual men like them.

Yeah, that is something you need to be careful of. Not yucking on other peoples yum. But you can still talk about it. You can talk about your own hesitations, and you can ask them how they feel about the same things you're concerned about. Rather than "I don't want to do it because it's not perfect", you can ask them to talk about their own relationship with bottom surgery, given that it's not perfect. You can talk about your own concerns and anxiety, without positioning your experience as the one true perspective. They know it's not perfect. But they do it anyway. And honestly, it sounds like hearing the perspective of someone in that position would be really helpful to you!

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I understand it's about bodily autonomy but after seeing friends dealing with so much self loathing due to their anatomy, and hearing my ex talking about what she went through to get surgery and the complications she had after, it always felt like it would be wrong, like rubbing sand into a wound, to bring up how I wanted to present myself. My ex probably guessed a bit eventually but she was not into it.

If I meet more trans guys who it's appropriate to talk to about this, I'll give it a go! Thank you for your advice.

I might actually email my ex and see if I can talk to her about this too. I don't know too many people irl right now and she's a pretty good problem solver, all things considered.

[–] ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Ok, let me give you another produce perspective.

I had breast augmentation and it's been a huge source of joy.

But something else that's a source of joy for me is seeing the goofy smile of joy on a trans guys face, when he shares a photo of the first time he went swimming topless after top surgery.

You don't need to assume talking about the things you want will make other folk unhappy just because they don't want it. Play it by ear and respect people's boundaries if they do express discomfort and you'll be fine.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago

I will. Thank you.

[–] kittenz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

There is a lot of spectrum on the binary, and dysphoria doesn’t always have to be an all or nothing thing, some people are okay with parts of there body, but have dysphoria from other things like social roles and expectations (I’m referencing my own experience here). This really helped me think about dysphoria as something that can take many different shapes and forms for different people : https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en

One of the parts I am enjoying about exploring gender is that you can figure out what it all means for you

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago

I've not seen that site before, thank you for linking it!

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

People who have clear interests that contrast my own make it much easy to realize my own thoughts are not that of a cis men. Given the pressure cis men are put under to pretend they like being cis men, I couldn't trust them to be honest*, so seeing others' thoughts was helpful. So thanks for saying you actually want a penis?

*sorry to anyone who I accidentally laughed because I thought you were making fun of masculinity rather than earnestly embracing it because I couldn't imagine someone actually wanting that.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Do you feel this dysphoria with your parts but not gender too?

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 2 points 1 week ago

I think that's at least approximately correct. Not sure I trust my judgement on my own emotions though. I still just use my birthname, boymode for work, etc and I've been aware I'm trans for a few years at this point. But it was over I realized I wanted an orchi and never considered that it might somehow be related to gender.

[–] ToastedCoconuts@piefed.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I'm afab, but identify as agender. I have gone through many of the thoughts you've written here, especially if I'm even allowed to call myself trans when it's not exactly feasible for me to get bottom surgery. I'm also aroace, in a similar way that you are

Have you considered trying testosterone? At a lower dose you can still get some bottom growth. You'll also have some of the other changes like thicker body hair, and lowering of voice. I was on T for about four months and didn't have any voice changes, but still had enough growth that I was content. I can go into more detail if you like, and there's some toys out there (and functional prosthetics) that help alleviate some of the bottom dysphoria. There's definitely no right way to be Trans or NB but it helps to have some anecdotal info when you're feeling lost.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh wow, I really appreciate your replying to this!

I considered trying testosterone cream for growth down there when I was younger but the increased body hair really put me off. I'm naturally already hairy and used to be very, very beardy when I was younger. Seriously, if I was a trans man I would have lucked out on the facial hair front. I obsessed over plucking it all out throughout my teens, and then in my 20's had so many electrolysis sessions and yet I'm in my 30's now and still have to shave every few days as these damn follicles just haven't fucking died.

The lower voice thing though is something I'm after. Despite my not being a very talky person anymore, I've been casually voice training for a while now since discovering it could be done without T. Women with low voices are cool and Dr Girlfriend is low key goals.

Back when I was still into having sex, straps and similar toys were something I was really into and there's a few shapes/styles which I really enjoyed as I could have a dick while also getting sensation from the other areas it was in contact with. The positioning was always off though as what felt best didn't fuck best and visa versa. Also most of mine were purple or pink as my skin tone doesn't really come in dildo format and other 'skin' colours look gross usually.

Soft packers aren't my jam from what I've tried of them, but I've not actually seen functional prosthetics before, these are very interesting!

I think I just had a moment of gender euphoria from seeing an actual dick looking dick that fucks like a dick, attached to someone like that. I'm going get one of these, I want to see that on myself. Thank you for linking that site!

If it's ok with you, I might message you at some point just to say hello and maybe talk about this and ask about your experiences.

Ok I've written a lot and am now very tired, so I'm going to stop now as it's getting difficult. Thank you for commenting and giving me stuff to think about!

[–] ToastedCoconuts@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Absolutely, you can message me! I'm not sure how well messaging works between piefed and lemmy yet, but I have a lemmy account too, if this doesn't work. I'm sorry it took so long for me to respond. I hope you got enough rest, it seemed like there was a lot to process through this whole post

Dr Girlfriend was a whole vibe. Almost a call back to the chainsmoking, husky-voiced actresses in vintage films

I know exactly what you mean about experiencing euphoria just from viewing the website!

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Let me know if it worked. Either way though, I'm open to answers on what I asked from anyone who sees this as it's an interesting question.

Anatomy does not define gender, so is it still gender euphoria if it's not about the gender, but the anatomy?

[–] ToastedCoconuts@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I got your message, but I can't seem to get the reply through.

Here's what I wrote back:

I think you get to define that the way that fits best. Calling it gender euphoria can be understandable by a large audience. We called medical treatments "gender affirming" when they were still gate-kept for cis people. Breast reconstruction or testicle implants, laser hair removal, and hormones for elder individuals, for just a small list. But, let me challenge the idea in a different way. If a person loses a body part that is intrinsically linked to how they experience, or want to experience the world, what should we call it when they can get that function back? A cis man who has surgery to return function to his penis could feel gender euphoria. I actually know someone who had an adult circumcision who explained it that way. On the other hand, an amputee can experience euphoria when they're able to hold their child again, or a hearing impaired child when they hear their mother's voice for the first time. Plastic surgery often has the same effect.

For me, I feel dysphoric about the female parts of my body, despite the fact that I'm still fem presenting. And likely always will be. It's my body that's wrong, not my presentation. So, I think for me it is gender euphoria even tho I don't have a gender in my head

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

if I’m even allowed to call myself trans when it’s not exactly feasible for me to get bottom surgery.

Being trans isn't just about surgeries. If you feel there's a mismatch between the gender people assigned you and your actual gender or sex, you're more than welcome to use the label if its useful for you. I know some agender people explicitly opt-out of the trans label (I used to be in that camp), and I think its fine to think "trans" doesn't serve any useful purpose in discussions with most people and not use it if you think it'll just confuse people more than it conveys meaningful information about yourself. It could even be context-dependent what labels you prefer, similar to how A-spec microlabels might only be something you talk about within A-spec or broadly queer communities.

Before I had any clue I was trans, I used to avoid listing "they/them" as pronouns (and therefore avoided pronouns in general) because I was worried it could be seen as taking something important for NBs and appropriating it. I don't know if I'm seen a single NB who has ever expressed such an idea and if anything, I think people would find it more offensive to think they would be so gatekeepy.

[–] ToastedCoconuts@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 week ago

Being trans isn't just about surgeries.

Oh, for sure. I definitely am more comfortable with myself, my labels, and my preferences now. But when that egg first cracked, I felt like I wasn't worthy of the label because of some criteria. That's why I mentioned that there isn't really a right way to be trans or enby, it's often different from one person to the next

[–] noughtnaut@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

The names of their products are really something!

That said, I'm thrilled that something like this exists and am hella curious about its day to day working.

[–] oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 week ago (1 children)

In our opinion: having bottom dysphoria. It could be you are still trans even if you are fine with the rest of your body but dislike that one area/system. That's up to you though.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thank you, I appreciate your input on this!

[–] oftheair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 week ago

You're welcome! We are happy to help!

[–] meejle@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I'd say it fits the definition of "dysphoria", even if you don't think it's necessarily gender dysphoria.

My understanding is that: when a trans person looks in the mirror or sees pictures of themselves, and there's a mismatch between "what they see" vs. "what they feel" – that unpleasant feeling is what's meant by "dysphoria". For a transgender person, that feeling could be all or partly about their genitals (masturbating or having sex with "wrong" genitals can make you feel dysphoric), but not necessarily.

Abigail Thorn (a trans YouTuber and philosophy expert) has argued that "gender dysphoria" is a misnomer, and something that cis people also experience. Watch a couple of minutes from this timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1eWIshUzr8&t=3886s

She also brings up "body dysmorphia", so maybe that's another one for you to google (although she argues that it's basically the same thing).

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 week ago

Thank you for replying! I definitely have body dismorphia, you're right on that.

Cis folk definitely have gender dysphoria, it's why they've boxed themselves into gendered roles so thoroughly. Calling stuff gender affirming when cis people do it makes the bigots twitch, which can be quite funny.

I've watched quite a few of Abigail's videos over the years but I kinda soured on her when she tried talking about veganism, she ended up saying that she couldn't go vegan because her cultural and family meals were more important to her so she didn't want to think about it. Which she admitted was a very privileged view to have but it still kinda annoyed me.

This rant is off topic, sorry. Her talks about everything else are usually really good and I appreciate the recommendation! I have a lot of painting to do later, so I'll put this one on.

[–] garbagebagel@lemmy.world 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Same same same. Thanks for asking this because I've never wanted to put it into words and am learning a lot from this thread.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 7 points 1 week ago

High five, there's officially two of us!

I've never talked about this either, I actually got a little bit tearful when I posted it, not quite worked out the emotion why yet though.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

you mentioned phalloplasty, but have you considered a metoidioplasty?

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 6 points 1 week ago

I look into all the options every few years and phallo is still the closest end result to what I want and it still isn't advanced enough to be producing outcomes that look, act and feel like real dicks.

I've actually been with someone who had metoidioplasty though! It was sensitive and looked good (albeit very small) and they were very happy with it, but it's not something I could see my body having.

Idk. Like I'm currently in my 6th year of an aro/ace stage in my life due to finally having space to process a lot of traumatic stuff I've been putting off, and that makes this whole thing extra hard to talk about because my ideal body plan is directly connected to my ideal sexual presentation and behaviour.

So while I really would like to have my own functioning dick that I can have penetrative sex with, I'm also unsure if I'm even going to come out of this aro/ace stage I'm in and medical science is still incapable of creating what I actually want, which makes this all kinda just feel like pointless yearning and trauma/dysphoria dumping on strangers.

Sorry about that.

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

This kind of seems like the worst of both worlds? You lose your vaginal opening from what I understand and gain a micro penis which cannot be used for penetrative sex.

I'm all for gender affirming care but this seems like a half measure that doesnt really make anyone happy. Just my two cents, maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

[–] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

hm, losing the vaginal canal is part of what is gender affirming for (probably most) trans men, and the penis is small but has full sensation and could be used for penetration AFAIK. Besides, some cis men have penises of the same size.

If I were a trans man I would probably opt for this surgery because it creates a penis will full sensation...

[–] dipshit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don't know if there is a specific term for it, I think people would just call it having bottom dysphoria.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 week ago

I think I will be doing this. Thank you!

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well, I'm transfem, and I'm fine with my biology, so this is kind of a similar situation. I feel it's better to just explain that.

[–] Aksamit@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Oh, you are one of the women I envy! You have my ideal body plan.

I want to ask you some questions about your orientation and how your finding it navigating social/sexual relationships and stuff, if you'd be open to that?

Also it's a bit off topic but I'm hella curious about how you're balancing your hormones for both femininity and functionality. I've only known women who were dysphoric as hell about that area and they all said estrogen made it much less functional and therefore less of an issue for them.

I really wish there was a term for this type of femininity that wasn't a slur or a fetish. Trying to talk about being a woman this way is so difficult as there is so much baggage attached to this concept now by people who are not part of it and I'm worried I'm going to inadvertently come across that way if I word stuff awkwardly.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Of course I'm willing to talk! I love yapping--I'm part fox.

I block testosterone entirely, and I'm on a standard dose of estradiol. It's just plain-old feminising hormone therapy without the need to consider bottom surgery.

My issues were straightforward. I'm more inclined to want to be emotionally sensitive. Testosterone wasn't ideal for this, but oestrogen was. Why not try a switch, then?

So I did.

My issues were never about my physical look--though, I did struggle with a lack of self image. Oestrogen has inadvertently driven me to want to push for a feminine image. It has me excited to explore different looks. As for my sexual organs, though, I never felt an aversion to it. I didn't see a need to. It's one, or the other. Why care?

Seemed illogical.

Penile function is certainly different now. I am infertile, and no longer experience random erections unless I'm experiencing physical contact. I make sure to "work out". Use it or lose it, and all that. I never really wanted to have kids--certainly not in this timeline.

In fact, I would be down for a vaginoplasty, purely because we could use a change of scenery around here, and for no other reason. I simply wonder what it's like.

On the other hand, though, testosterone and oestrogen touch the mind. As an avid psychedelic user, I notice. I asked questions, such as "why do I not feel?" and "why can't I just cry?" As I became more emotionally intelligent (rather than ignorant and devoid, like Spock), I realised I'd like to be able to let the emotions flow a little easier.

That it did. Indeed, I cry more often. Mission accomplished. Turns out, though, that boobs are cool. Wearing bras is also cool. Now, I'm excited for that as well. I look in the mirror, and see an image more aligned with what I want. As well as that, being the world's softest cuddlebug, I appreciate physical contact touching my soul more.

I didn't want to be strong, I wanted to be human. Everything else is just a happy little accident.

Overall, my desires are pretty.. crude. Very basic. It's as if I'm a computer wanting to change out my software to suit my needs more. The hardware is ultimately just a way of interacting with the software. That might be the best way to look at it.

Essentially, I'm just a woman with male genitalia and underlying form. It remains to be seen whether I'll want to change that or not, but that's where I stand now.

I hope that's some good insight!

LGBTQ+