this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2025

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suicide to the idf (quokk.au)

submitted 4 months ago by Deceptichum@quokk.au to c/flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com

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[–] MTK@lemmy.world 27 points 4 months ago (13 children)

Gonna get downvoted but fuck this.

The IDF is terrible, the Israeli government is terrible, it is genocidal and there is no excuse for that.

Yet, the IDF is mandatory for all 18yo in Israel, meaning that you could be completely against the IDF and the government, and still be in the IDF.

Imagine being an 18yo who sees the genocide, understands the that Israel is in the wrong, and is now forced to join the army that is in the process of a genocide, and immediately receiving a gun. Fucked up situation that might even lead someone to suicide, especially if maybe you are already in a dark place.

My point is that there are IDF soldiers that are absolutely genocidal, the IDF as an army is horrific, but because of mandatory conscription you can't treat it the same as a voluntary army where people choose to be there (kinda, poverty and propaganda can often make it more complex)

Just as I wouldn't celebrate the suicide of a Russian just because of what Russia is doing, I wouldn't celebrate the suicide of an Israeli just because they were forced to join the IDF.

I think that these mindless celebrations of death jist fuel the cycle of hatred. If you support a genocide I have no compassion for you, but a forced conscription is not a choice.

[–] Baggie@lemmy.zip 11 points 4 months ago

Exactly. The people that are killing themselves are likely the people that had the most capacity for good in they entire establishment. It's such a sad state of affairs.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Or instead of joining the IDF, you get the jail time of a few months.

But I guess they're just following orders, so they're actually absolved of the rape and genocide.

[–] MTK@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Sure, a few months in jail seems like an option, But there are 2 important factors here:

Wether they are going to be combatants or not
The fact that these are young adults / teens in a very normalized situation.

If you are 18yo and fresh out of school, understand that the IDF is in the wrong and condemn it but are now facing the choice between doing what society expects of you and going for 2-3 years of office work at the IDF or go against the law, go to jail for an unknown amount of months and possibly face social consequences, you might choose the office work. It does not obsolve you from all faults, but it does not make you genocidal or a rapist.

This approach of grouping everyone together is just adding more fuel to the fire. Everyone sticks their head in the sand and says "This is the problem, there is no nuance!" And guess what? Sometimes you will be more right and sometimes you will be more wrong, but you will very very rarely be correct.

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[–] ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

The correlation of combatant suicide is commonplace, but increased severely in periods of fascism and genocide. Most people aren't sociopaths but can still be persuaded, pressured, and/or conditioned to do terrible things. I'm surprised it's not higher.

[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

And those committing suicide are those who see their / their sides wrongdoings and can't live with them. This is not something to celebrate, these people are victims just as the people in the Gaza Strip.

[–] Hestia@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago (11 children)

Instead of killing themselves they should be fragging their fellow soldiers. But these cowards can’t even bring themselves to try and right their wrongs.

They’re not victims. They’re monsters who finally learned who they are but refuse to repent.

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[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

And those committing suicide are those who see their / their sides wrongdoings

Not necessarily.

these people are victims just as the people in the Gaza Strip.

Aw hell the fuck no! IDF soldiers are not fucking victims of their own actions. For fuck's sake please tell me I misread that 🤮

[–] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

There will be a non-zero amount of soldiers who didn't choose this - Israel has a mandatory military draft of 2 years for men and women, with some roles having to serve additional time. Once you are drafted, you will be pressured into things, and with "Shooting and Crying" you've shown a propaganda tool used to prime the civilian population for exactly this - following orders even when your conscience says it's wrong to do so.

So yeah, i stand by my statement that IDF Soldiers who kill themselves because they can't live with what they've witnessed are victims of the same machinery that kills children in the strip.

[–] PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

People who get non-combat jobs are unlikely to kill themselves over their service.

following orders even when your conscience says it's wrong to do so.

Not an excuse.

So yeah, i stand by my statement that IDF Soldiers who kill themselves because they can't live with what they've witnessed are victims of the same machinery that kills children in the strip.

Oh my God no, choosing to take your own life out of guilt from the actions of the army you served in is not morally equivalent to a child being obliterated by said army. Please I'm trying to be patient here

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (6 children)

This is not NK, those IDF soldiers can refuse.

Apparently spending some time in gaol is less preferable to committing genocide to them.

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[–] riwo@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

i would much prefer people who did horrible things to change their ways, and work towards healing the world rather than kill themselves

[–] NewDark@lemmings.world 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but you aren't going to see me shedding tears over dead fascists.

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[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 8 points 4 months ago (4 children)

And I'd like to live in a magical floating castle. At least a dead IDF today will save a life tomorrow.

[–] Instigate@aussie.zone 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Okay, but let’s at least try to remember that there is mandatory conscription and service in Israel and that there is probably a significant proportion of people who have no other choice but to serve in the IDF. I am in no way attempting to excuse genocidal and homicidal actions that anyone has taken, but let’s at least attempt to understand the complexity of the issue instead of trying to reduce things to an unnaturally binary state.

Life is infinitely complex. Let’s use the wonderful tools of understanding that complex evolutionary pathways have afforded us to try to scratch the surface of that infinity. Empathy is strength; don’t let right-wing propaganda teach you that it is a weakness.

[–] Deceptichum@quokk.au 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

They literally have other choices than joining the IDF. That choice is gaol, instead they choose to commit genocide.

Fuck them all, zero sympathy for Nazis.

[–] Doc_Crankenstein@slrpnk.net 6 points 4 months ago

Exactly the excuse "oh I had to make that choice or else I would have suffered" is so lacking in solidarity that it's infuriating.

This is how hierarchy maintains its power, by saying "hurt them or we will hurt you; do what we say or else"; making people believe it is acceptable to sacrifice the lives of others to remain safe under the current system. Their power is entirely predicated on people having that fear keeping them in line and obeying their orders.

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[–] mrdown@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

There was germans who faced execusion for not following orders and protecting jews. Yet we didn't give any excuses for people forced into the germany Nazi army

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[–] cassandrafatigue@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 4 months ago

But if they're not gonna change, this isn't a bad alternative to your thing.

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[–] Tenniswaffles@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 4 months ago

I disagree, they should be doing murder suicides with their commanding officers.

[–] William_Nilliam@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

wow that sucks

spoiler

That it's not more

[–] robot_dog_with_gun@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

fragging is cooler but i'll take it

[–] oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip 5 points 4 months ago

One of the few reasons I encourage suicide.

Sure, watching them get mowed down is more satisfying, but I will take every IDF, Nazi, and fascist death literally no matter what the circumstance is, except deaths that involve actual decent people going down with them. With the exception to the exception of good people sacrificing themselves specifically in order to take out the maximum number they can with them.

But all you IDF morons should feel bad, and you should definitely teamkill as many as possible before killing yourselves. Bonus points off you get good footage. Extra bonus for backflip.

Some day the best outcome is 0% of evil remaining, but I prefer 100% evil mortality rate. Don't leave room to presume rehabilitation is possible. That effort isn't worth it.

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

We need it to be even higher.

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