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I know memory is fairly cheap but e.g. there are millions of new videos on youtube everyday, each probably few hundred MBs to few GBs. It all has to take enormous amount of space. Not to mention backups.

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[-] okuhiko@lemmy.world 47 points 1 year ago

Google just has a lot of storage space. They have dozens of data centers, each of which is an entire building dedicated to nothing but storing servers, and they’re constantly adding more servers to previous data centers and building new data centers to fit even more servers into once the ones they have are full.

IIRC, estimates tend to put Google’s current storage capacity somewhere around 10-15 exabytes. Each exabyte is a million terabytes. Each terabyte is a thousand gigabytes. That’s 10-15 billion gigabytes. And they can add storage faster than storage is used up, because they turn massive profits that they can use to pay employees to do nothing but add servers to their data centers.

Google is just a massive force in terms of storage. They probably have more storage than any other organization on the planet. And so, they can share a lot of it for free, because they’re still always turning a profit.

[-] SHITPOSTING_ACCOUNT@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago

The 10-15 EB estimate from XKCD was 10 years ago.

[-] green_light_stop@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago

There are also techniques where data centers do offline storage by writing out to a high volume storage medium (I heard Blu-ray as an example, especially because it's cheap) and storing it in racks. All automated of course. This let's them store huge quantities of infrequently accessed data (most of it) in a more efficient way. Not everything has to be online and ready to go, as long as it's capable of being made available on demand.

Edit: Clarifying that tape medium is typically used for the longest term storage with the caveat that read is slow, so that used for the stuff that is least likely to be accessed. For things that are accessed infrequently but still need to be available relatively frequently you can have a "caching layer" which is what I was referring to with the discs. It's a tradeoff between speed of access and information density. Here's an article from 2015 where Facebook/Meta is discussing their design: https://engineering.fb.com/2015/05/04/core-data/under-the-hood-facebook-s-cold-storage-system/

[-] valaramech@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

It's far more likely that Google, AWS, and Microsoft are using tape for high-volume, long-term storage.

According to diskprices.com, these are the approximate cost of a few different storage media (assuming one is attempting to optimize for cost):

  • Tape $0.004 - $0.006 / GB
  • HDD $0.009 - $0.012 / GB
  • BluRay $0.02 - $0.04 / GB
  • SSD $0.035 - $0.04 / GB
  • microSD $0.065 - $0.075 / GB
[-] bustrpoindextr@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Tape archives are neat too, little robot rearranging little tape drives in his cute little corridor

[-] legion@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

You can feel it on YouTube when you try to access an old video that no one has watched in a long time.

[-] seeCseas@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

every time it lags, it's because youtube has to send someone down to the basement to retrieve the correct blu-ray disc from a storage room

God bless those interns. Earning those college credits.

[-] WhatsHerBucket@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

And that guy is out today..

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[-] BURN@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Tape drives are still in use in a lot of places too. Enormous density in storage for stuff that’s in “cold storage”

[-] WhoRoger@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Doesn't BR only have like 100 gigs capacity? That would take a shitton of space.

They use tapes for backups, but indeed there ought to be something inbetween.

[-] green_light_stop@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

https://engineering.fb.com/2015/05/04/core-data/under-the-hood-facebook-s-cold-storage-system/

This is an article from 2015 where Facebook/Meta was exploring Blu-ray for their DCs. You're definitely right though. Tape is key as the longest term storage.

[-] WhoRoger@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

2015 was quite a while ago tho.

[-] saiturihiiva@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

Shh, don't say that. It feels like just a few years at most.

[-] peter@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

I don't think the storage density of a blu ray is anywhere near good enough for that use

[-] jrs100000@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

And thats just Google. Amazon and Microsoft also run also have massive massive data capacity that runs large chunks of the internet. And then you get into the small and medium sized hosting companies, that can be pretty significant on their own.

[-] reliv3@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

Let's be honest, it isn't "free". The user is giving their own data to Google in order to use there services; and data is a commodity.

[-] Zoot@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

Kinda starting to seem like "data" is becoming less and less valuable, or am I wrong?

[-] Still@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago

well there's more and more of it so the value per byte is decreasing as everything tracks you and there's only so much info you can get

[-] obviouspornalt@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 1 year ago

15 exabytes sounds low. Rough math, 1 20 TB hard drive per physical machine with 50,000 physical machines is one exabyte raw storage. I bet 50,000 physical machines is a small datacenter for Google.

[-] Eavolution@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

I was recently doing a tour of CERN in Geneva, and they actually still store data on tape because of its cost and reliability over hard drives!

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[-] DontTreadOnBigfoot@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Absolutely huge data centers.

A full third of my towns real estate is currently covered with a sprawling Google data center. Just enormous.

[-] ddtfrog@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] green_dragon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago
[-] ddtfrog@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

I love driving through it when I go up to Winchester. Data center galore.

[-] green_dragon@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I can't fathom that amount stored there in addition to the amount of data traffic occurring. Those fibers are on fire; coming in the centers in 3 foot tubes! For some reason they don't appear on google image search. ;)

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[-] tentphone@lemmy.fmhy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Twitter probably doesn't take to that much space (comparatively) because it's mostly text with some images.

YouTube is another matter. There's an enormous amount of content uploaded to YouTube, as much as 30,000 hours of video uploaded per hour. That's around 1PB per hour assuming most videos are uploaded in 1080p.

I wasn't able to find an official source for what YouTube's total data storage is, but this estimate puts it at 10 EB or 10,000,000,000 GB of video.

On Amazon AWS that would cost $3 Billion per month to store. The actual cost to Google is probably much lower because of economy of scale and because it is run by and optimized for them, but it is still a colossal figure. They offset the cost with ads, data collection, and premium subscription, but I would imagine running YouTube is still a net loss for Google.

[-] sab@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

I'm generally the first to criticize Google, but when it comes to pushing ads on YouTube I'm having a hard time really condemning them for it. I struggle to wrap my head around how this service can exist at all.

Also, second to direct transactions, I'd much rather have Google make money through ads than anything else.

[-] Max_UL@lemmy.pro 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Agreed, I pay for YouTube premium and in the world of corporate crap and fees and stuff I’m ok with that value trade off relatively. Hell, I would have paid for Reddit, too, if they weren’t assholes.

Edit: I mistyped Google premium instead of YouTube premium… same place though of course

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

Issue has become that in this era of business you could drop 100k on a car and they'll still data mine information on you and record you. So you really only paid to be less annoyed, but the tracking remains a core part of the system.

Now some stuff like proton email do make privacy a part of their business, but that is becoming rarer. Everyone is the product by default no matter how much money they pay for a service these days.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

They'll make it through data collection too even if you pay for premium. You are still the product even if you pay in this era.

[-] seeCseas@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I would imagine running YouTube is still a net loss for Google.

I doubt it, youtube generates about 30 billion in revenue per year!

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[-] BudgieMania@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

Three additional things that you have to keep in mind are that:

1 - Enterprise storage is much, much denser (as in, capacity per physical space occupied) than you would expect.
2 - These systems have capacity recovery features (primarily compression and deduplication) that save a lot more storage than you would expect.
3 - The elements in the infrastructure are periodically refreshed by migrating them to newer infrastructure (think of how you could migrate two old 500GB disks to a single modern 1TB disk to save the physical space of a disk).

As an example about point 1, this is what IBM advertises in their public whitepaper for their Storage Scale systems (https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/R0Q1DV1X):

"IBM Storage Scale System is based on proven IBM Storage 2U24 hardware that can be expanded with additional storage enclosures up to 15.4PB of total capacity in a single node and 633YB in a single cluster. You can start with 48TB using half-populated flash nodes or create a fully-populated NVMe flash solution with 24, 2.5” drives in capacities of 3.84TB, 7.68TB, 15.36TB or 30TB. Using the largest capacity 30TB NVMe drives, up to 720TB total flash capacity, in a 2U form factor, along with associated low weight and low power consumption. Adding storage enclosures is easy as up to 8 enclosures (each 4u with 102 drives) can accommodate up to 816 drives of 10TB, 14TB or 18TB or 14.6PB of total raw HDD capacity."

In short, you end up packing a stupid amount of storage in relatively moderate spaces. Combined with the other two points, it helps keep things somewhat under control. Kinda.

[-] Jmr@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

YouTube isn't even profitable yet. Google pours billions into storage and compute, so does Amazon and Microsoft and all the others. They have so much space we probably can't even comprehend it

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[-] UntouchedWagons@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 year ago

For twitter it's not that complicated because tweets are quite short and text compresses very well. The pictures and videos people upload are of course another story, I'm not sure what Twitter uses as a backend for anything though.

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[-] Generator@lemmy.pt 1 points 1 year ago

Not only that but for each video on YouTube there are different versions for each resolution. So if you upload a 1080p video, it gets converted to 1080p AVC/VP9, 720p AVC/VP9, 480p... also for the audio.

If you run youtube-dl -F <youtube url> you will see different formats.

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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2023
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