this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2023

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an update to defederating from sh.itjust.works (beehaw.org)

submitted 2 years ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/support@beehaw.org

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hey folks, here's a quick update on our decision to defederate from sh.itjust.works! (and here's sh.itjust.works's side of this update)

we got in touch with the head admin over there, The Dude, and we had a pretty good chat about our concerns and reason for defederating. while immediate re-federation is just bluntly off the table with the rudimentary state of Lemmy's moderation tools, we now have a pretty good idea of the roadmap to refederating with them. we think we'll eventually be able to do this, although we don't have a timetable on when yet.

we're also now collaborating with him on how to move forward--and in the weeks and months to come we'll be pushing to expedite the process of developing some of the necessary tools. this decision has really helped us make connections that can hopefully realize those tools both on the desktop side and in apps being developed for Lemmy. we're also hoping to collaborate with other Lemmy administrators who have needs like our own, or just generally want more granular tools at their disposal.

we did also get in touch with the lemmy.world owner prior to defederating to share the concerns that prompted us to defederate[^1]--but we have not received any communication from him since it was levied, so there's no roadmap at all there as of now. we're always open to reconsidering and collaborating to end the defederation with him, but for now the earliest i can give you is "when mod tools are in a better state".

that's all for now folks. if any new significant developments take place we'll announce them as needed.

[^1]: we're only bringing this up now because it was just not useful information in the context of our announcement. it almost certainly would have been interpreted as some sort of callousness and/or brought unnecessary sectarianism and grief to him. at the end of the day he has his reasons and desires for running lemmy.world how he does, and we have ours for running Beehaw as we do. because of social and technological circumstances those are just incompatible right now, and that's fine.

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[–] t3rmit3@beehaw.org 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

In my application here I cited the decision to de-fed from them as why I chose to sign up for beehaw. I was looking through shitjustworks and was absolutely not liking how it seemed to be absorbing some of the worst "libertarianism and rationalism are my excuse to insult people" types from reddit. I'll be interested to see whether their admins succeed in wrangling their 'hives'.

[–] bartera@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Fun fact. Your take just made me sign up there too.

I actually seek different perspectives and don't quite agree with any particular place that is very "ideologically packeted" like most tend to. Where "they insult" and "we don't, because if they feel insulted is because of Reality and how right we are".

I'm new to all this fediverse and I'm curious to see how different niche interests develop and if we can actually form the usefulness that Reddit threads could have or if it's a unique and different usefulness...

[–] theblueredditrefugee@beehaw.org 5 points 2 years ago (16 children)

Sometimes I wanna see what everyone else sees. That's why I also have an account on another instance. But sometimes I don't want the risk of seeing people question my right to exist (how often on reddit do I come across someone who's "just asking questions"). That's why I'm here. So glad reddit is dead now bc we're all here instead.

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[–] halictuz@beehaw.org 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

This is in the nature of the domain name. If you name your site "shit just works" you can't be surprised if you build a bubble for idiots in the first wave of registrations.

I'm not bashing on the site or their Admins.i say that out of own experience over the last 25+ years on the internet and some exp in hosting forums and all that myself.

[–] admin@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago (18 children)

The Dude abides

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[–] ruudtest@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (5 children)

Lol .. tried commenting from my lemmy.world account but duhh that's defederated.. This is @ruud@lemmy.world

This was my reply:

Hi there! Lemmy.world calling!

I read here that I’m unresponsive, but after a chat with one of your team, the last mesasge I got was:

"Sorry for the bad news especially after we’ve had such a good conversation but we have defederated. It was not an easy decision and I hope it doesn’t hurt our relations. It’s not personal, it’s just that our goals don’t work together, we wish it was possible to “limit” a la mastodon… I hope you understand "

I didn’t know that was a question… ;-)

I would very much like to get in touch with you, I have also been in touch with the sh.itjust.works admin. If there’s anything we could do to solve your concerns, let us know.

You can reach me on matrix @ruud:h-y-p-e-r.space or mail info@lemmy.world (But I’ll be asleep the next 8 hours hopefully, so I’ll be unresponsive)

[–] Lionir@beehaw.org 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

That's my bad, I had kinda assumed you'd reply something so the silence was a bit unexpected. I apologize.

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[–] Jitzilla@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (8 children)

Am I on beehaw? This is so confusing. Can someone explain to my dumb ass?

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[–] mobyduck648@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I genuinely think Reddit lowered my expections of moderators so much over the years without me even realising, it's great to come to a place like this where everyone on both sides sounds reasonable and competent at what they're doing. Really excited to see how Lemmy and the Fediverse more generally develops.

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[–] EponymousBosh@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

I'm really glad everyone seems to be on the same team here and there's no bad blood between the mods.

[–] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

I appreciate the update and link. While it seems like most of the people on the thread there understand that it's early days and this is more a reflection of kinks in Lemmy that need to be worked out than Beehaw being unreasonable, the exceptions to that underscore to a larger extent than the original defederation action why it needed to be taken.

There's a lot of entitlement out there of the how-dare-people-who-put-in-time-and-money-into-a-passion-project-feel-they-have-the-right-to-any-level-of-control-over-said-project variety.

[–] DarbyDear@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Thank you for the transparency! I definitely understand the original decision to defederate (especially looking at the troll's post, which was linked to in The Dude's side of things), but I also look forward to better, more granular moderation and administration controls to come out so that refederation can happen.

I would also like to give kudos to the admin team and users over at sh.itjust.works - there's some good discussion going on over there in the thread linked here. I love that, despite the fundamental difference in views on how an instance should be run, it seems to be respectful on the whole. Even the people that firmly disagree with Beehaw's vision essentially leave it at "I think it can be done better, and want to demonstrate how." I think that's perfect, and encapsulates the benefit that Lemmy has over centralized platforms. There is also no support for the troll that triggered this situation to begin with.

[–] Viclan@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

Definitely agree, the people overall over there seemed like fine folks who understood once they saw both mod teams communications on the defederation. There were a few people who took the worst possible interpretation and were trying to run with it, but a lot of the users there were shutting them down and explaining where they might be drawing conclusions. Overall really happy with the interactions on lemmy, lots of nuanced discussion and really just feels more laid back and good faith for a majority of the userbase

[–] OneRedFox@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (5 children)

It's quite unfortunate that Rexxit happened before the platform was ready for it. Looking forward to refederating when the time comes.

[–] mizmoose@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (4 children)

No one is ever ready for the Reddit Inqui-- er, Invasion.

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[–] Valdair@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

If anything it's probably ultimately better (from this, specific perspective) that the Reddit blackout was only two days and only really drove 10k~100k over to try out Fediverse instances and not 100k~1m. In general I don't think things are clear and digestible enough to start porting entire communities (even small ones), but I think with some stress testing and getting some QOL updates, apps, etc., we could be in that position in as little as a few weeks or months.

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[–] feetongrass@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think rexxit is the catalyst to get the platform ready. I don't think rexxit is a one and done thing. It's gonna be more of a constant trickle, and lemmy is in a very good place to absorb more users. I browsed /r/all today, and saw many comments of people saying the frontpage sucks because there's no content. Spez might like to pretend there's no impact to reddit, but there's certainly going to be a big impact at least in the near term.

[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago

Indeed, I think that ironically the pattern we're seeing from Reddit is pretty much ideal for getting this platform up and running. They sent a moderate surge of users over here to shake things down and start contributing, and then on June 30 a much bigger surge may come this way to see what's been built.

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[–] Hotchpotch@beehaw.org 0 points 2 years ago

Thanks for keeping us updated!

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