Comrade_Improving

As an example, many of the contradictions within USSR were a result of the fact that USSR was under siege by the capitalist world. The phenomenon Parenti refers to as siege communism.

At first I was shocked of reading this, on a ML instance of all places, to take Parenti's siege socialism and attempt to make it as the result of some kind of struturalistc analysis feels unbelievable, but considering that our discussion has been around the fact that you'd rather use an agnostic analysis over a materialistic one, and that you don't follow Hegelian dialectics and therefore the term "contradiction" means whatever you want, it's then possible to see how one could claim such absurdities.

Let's then actually quote the man himself:

One reason siege socialism could not make the transition to consumer socialism is that the state of siege was never lifted. As noted in the previous chapter, the very real internal deficiencies within communist systems were exacerbated by unrelenting external attacks and threats from the Western powers. (Blackshirts and Reds, p.74)

Parenti literally wrote that the external influences exacerbated the internal contradictions already present within the system, because he was using dialectical materialism and therefore saw first the existence of internal contradictions and then those being affected by the external influences, not the other way around as you claimed.

I need to say, having never had a discussion with a western "leftist" before, even though I somewhat knew what to expect, it is still impressive seeing it first hand how one can believe to make no mistakes and their arguments don't require any proof since they personally own the truth, thinking that repeated enough times anything they say will become real.

Leaving that aside, this recent discussion has left me with a question which I look forward to the answer. If you can dismiss dialectical materialism so easily in favor of a struturalistic analysis, and don't care about Hegelian dialectics, why were you writing about diamat in the first place?

Sorry to bother you again with this conversation after 3 months have passed, but this sentence has come back to me a couple of times during this period due to how poorly it was dealt with by me, and just how it crucial it was to our discussion, so I will now attempt to correct that.

Structuralism differs form Marxism in that it tries to take Marxist advancements on sociology and understanding of the structures of society while refuting the knowability of the internal contradictions within said society, therefore negating the existence of the internal contradiction that lead to capitalism's demise. They claim that the problems of capitalist society are consequences of poor implementation of the system, and consequently believe that with just a change in policies and general politics the problems can be fixed, therefore it is the philosophy which gives birth to reformists.

The way that structuralism achieves that separation from Marxist conclusions is by following the agnostic logic of compromising materialism with idealism, in its specific case, it is Marxist sociology with fichtean subjective idealism, it turns Fichte "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" into reality-ideas-structures.

Out of the top of wikipedia's page on structuralism: "Structuralism is "The belief that phenomena of human life are not intelligible except through their interrelations.". (Things are unknowable but their interrelations are knowable, classic agnostic muddle.)

Out of the top of wikipedia's page on Post-structuralism: "Structuralism proposes that human culture can be understood by means of a structure that is modeled on language. As a result, there is concrete reality on the one hand, abstract ideas about reality on the other hand, and a "third order" that mediates between the two." (reality-ideas-structures.)

Looking back in our discussion, you said "I’m not sure there’s much value separating external and internal conditions though as both ultimately feed into the system.", but to study a thing with Dialectical Materialism it is a necessary step to separate from its current context in order to discover its internal contradictions, which is why in his texts Marx himself does so many abstractions, to allow him to understand the internal movements of things.

The condition that materialism demands of every theory, that it must be put to the test of reality, does not mean that one shouldn't use abstractions when creating said theory, in fact it is quite the opposite if we look at Marxism.

Looking even further into our discussion, we can see that it went through this contradiction where I was attempting to simplify things in order to make more apparent the differences between philosophies, mentioning eggs, water, etc., while you kept complicating matters by bringing more complex and bigger things, such as society, environment, etc., making the discussion less clear and hiding misunderstandings behind big words.

While it did annoy me at the time, which lead to my last comment, I can now understand that it wasn't personal, it is of philosophical necessity that agnosticism muddles things, for when the matter being dealt with is clear and simple, the separation that it tries to create between knowable and unknowable loses all reasoning, which is why we can't just discuss over an egg hatching into a chicken, we must to consider how the "chicken will proceed to eat food, produce waste, and so on. It’s part of the environment, and it has a direct effect on the environment." and therefore we can only comprehend it as a structure and not its specific parts, as Lenin would say, pure muddle.

Having explained all this, it would be incoherent of me to leave the same books recommendations as I did last time, considering we can now see that the divergence comes before we get to dialectics, it is between materialism and agnosticism, I will then recommend a single book on the matter, Lenin's "Materialism and Empirio-Criticism". Even though it was written before Structuralism was a thing, it goes on such great detail on the differences between the logic of materialism and agnosticism in general (and idealism as well) that it provides the best method of understanding what separates those fields of philosophy.

May this help you to comprehend the differences between philosophies and the necessity that materialism has of objective knowledge and it's complete compromise with the truth, Good Luck comrade.

Good answer, comrade 🫡

It is always important to remember to think current situations in a materialistic way, and not fall for the idealistic lie that propaganda alone is able to "brainwash" or "control" people.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for, crazy that I've never heard of it or of the author.

Thanks for the recommendations. I actually started searching for a critique after seeing how many of those philosophers call themselves Marxists or post, all the while covering with the most idealistic BS the advances that Marx brought to Philosophy and Sociology.

Even tough I'm neither a zoomer or have ADHD I can relate with not being able to read Marx's "Capital", years ago I also jumped straight into it after only having read the manifesto and as consequence could not make past the 2º chapter.

But that is the "Capital"'s contradiction. It's such a complete and elaborated description of capitalist economy that you theoretically wouldn't need any other complementary text to understand capitalism, but as a consequence of that the book is extremely dense, complex and long, so much that if you never read a Marxist book prior you will be encountering new terms and logics in almost every paragraph, making it a very hard and slow read while also likely leading to misunderstandings.

The solution to that is to do exactly what your doing now, which is reading other simpler and shorter Marxists books and increasing your understanding of Marxism in general, before tackling the behemoth that is Marx's "Capital". So just remember that you can't do capital yet, but after finishing your list, if you give it another try maybe you will find out that you actually can do it.

That is a good New Year's Resolution to have, as it's always better to know more theory. Personally I always recommend to anyone that is planing to do a deep dive in Marxist theory to start with the philosophy on which the theory itself is based, that means reading books on Dialectical Materialism as the first step.

You already have a couple of them in your list, so my recommendation is to prioritize them over their application in the more advanced books. On that note the only book I would add to your list is M. Cornforth's "Materialism and the Dialectical Method" which is arguably the book to describe Diamat in the most understandable way for modern readers.

Other than that, I would say after finishing that list it'd be time to tackle the two most important works of Marx and Engels in Engels' "Anti-Dühring" and Marx's "Capital".

Good reading, Comrade.

Well, in the link they mention 5 out 40 in a class, that equals to 12.5% and 2 million out of 22 million in total, that is just over 9%.

Personally, I don't see the point of going in circles in this discussion, so I'll just add my two last notes:

First, I want to again make very clear that my entire point since the first comment has been around the misuse of Fichte's "thesis–antithesis–synthesis" in the place of Hegel's study of "the inner life and self-movement", and the consequences of this. I do want to add the if you know a Marxist author that uses the Fichtean method in a book, please send a link to me, for I would definitely need to read it.

Speaking of books, lastly I want to recommend the books that I read that deal with the dialectical method as I've been describing: F. Engels - "Socialism Utopian and Scientific"; F. Engels - "Ludwig Feuerbach and the End of Classical German Philosophy"; J. Stalin - "Dialectical and Historical Materialism"; M. Cornforth - "Materialism and the Dialectical Method"; Mao - "Five Essays on Philosophy"; V. Adoratsky - "The Theoretical Foundation of Marxism-Leninism"; V.I. Lenin - "Karl Marx"; G. Plekhanov - "Materialismus Militans"; G. Plekhanov "In Defense of Materialism".

Hopefully you will find within yourself to read, and maybe reread, those books so that the methodological mistake you've been making so far may be a thing of the past, good luck on this process comrade.

Actually it's the other way around, the framework is given by the contradictions and therefore internally, while the pressures that affect them are usually external, the combination of both is what leads the system's evolution.

I think I understand pretty clearly what you mean, and it's slightly incorrect, the contradictions are the "tracks" that guide the evolution caused by other forces, and as such the shape of those contradictions is given internally, but the actual "location" within those "tracks" is given mostly externally.

Hence the example from Mao about the egg and the rock, the internal contradictions from the egg are what allow it to become a chicken in the correct temperature (the external influence that leads to that contradiction), but regardless of what you do externally to it, a rock that doesn't have that internal contradiction will never be able to become a chicken.

I wanted to add a classic example of Marxist contradiction, and thought it would be good to use the contradiction between socialized production and private property of the means of production, that contradiction by itself doesn't do anything, only when inserted in the capitalistic mode of production that it will cause so that the production as whole creates poor resource distribution, inequality, crisis, etc., so to try and fix the production as a whole we could fix this one contradiction by struggling to change the private property to socialized property. We would then find that although there were improvements, there are still problems (other contradictions) within the system.

So we can see that the answer to solving the internal contradictions within a system lies inside those contradictions themselves, even with those contradictions being only a part of the whole system and the solution of one not leading to the solution of the whole system.

Well, there are philosophies that study things focusing on its context and interconnection with other structures, that's French Structuralism.

It's only Dialetical Materialism that requires the investigation of the internal contradictions inherent in everything.