@camr_on I have no idea what you're referring to.
Mute me: it costs you nothing to disappear me from your view.
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You see this image, here?
Notice where he's *looking* and notice where he's *steering*.
THIS is what I'm talking about, NOT about the *initiation* of the going-into-turn.
He's looking where he's GOING, his steering is multiple-degrees OUT from the turn he's carving.
Here is another example
The *reason* you have to steer multiple degrees OUT from the curve you're doing, when you're really leaned-over, is that if you don't, the curve will be waaay too sharp, and you'll flip your bike.
Another example.
In all 3 of those, see the angular difference between where they're looking & where they're steering.
Having done the road-bike version of this, I know from experience, if you haven't done it where you HAVE TO steer out-of the curve you're carving, in order to not-flip-the-bike,
then you don't/won't believe what it actually feels like,
or how you have to fight your natural instinct, until that natural-instinct gets rewritten by experience ( which happens quickly ).
It is WEIRD feeling to be steering to the right, while carving to the left, or vice versa.
( I'm trying to find the perfect shot: a shot where you're seeing *exactly* in line with the frame of the bike, so you can see the angle of the steering vs the angle of the curve )
Look, if it is axiomatic for you that Universe cannot have what I'm describing, then it is ideologically impossible for what I'm saying to be valid, right?
Let's call it quits.
I *never was* talking about initiating a turn, and that apparently is a concept which you reject.
Good Day.
@sping I now know that there are *2* different, distinct, phenomena, both called "counter steering", that have nothing to do with each-other.
What you describe is what some call counter steering.
What I'm talking about is when you are in the lean, if you lean the bike a bit more, while steering a few degrees *out* from the turning you are doing, while "climbing through the turn on the sidewall", the bike goes 'round like it's on rails, while keeping its center-of-gravity low.
That is what *I*, and some others, mean when talking about "counter steering".
It has nothing whatsoever to do with what one does with the steering when the bike is upright.
And it wasn't the Fornine vid I was remembering, so I've no idea who it was who also means what I mean.
What a shoddy mess that is: the same label for distinct different phenomena, that are similar.
That is the wrong way of making language "work".
Cheers.
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@sping I only found counter-steering worked when on road-tires, & leaned waaay over, and from what I've seen of Fortnine, he countersteers waaay leaned over, too.
The turn of the handlebars only is primary when you're upright, not when you're as-near-horizontal-as-you-can-get.
*shruggeth*
It's been many years since I bothered with road-bikes, and arguing it is pointless, obviously: what I'm talking about you aren't describing.
Cheers.
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@sping From my perspective as a bicyclist, it is the key to understanding counter-steering:
When one is riding the center of the tire, one is in normal steering.
However, when one is riding the *side* of the tire, then counter-steering is happening, and one is *climbing* on the side-ish part of the tire.
That matches the experience.
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@ajsadauskas @fuck_cars @sydneytrains @urbanism There is a specific CATEGORY of threat to humanity's operations, that needs systematic countering:
The counter-intuitive.
Things like "add more roads, they'll de-congest" are *natural* assumptions, and *wrong*.
But there are many counter-intuitive things,
and it is *incompetent* to pretend that every manager, authority, whatever, everywhere, is going to somehow, magically, independently discover that they are counter-intuitive & need to be managed *backwards* to one's unconscious "reasoning".
It's like trying to get somebody to understand countersteering...
Until they *understand* that you're literally riding the bike on the *side* of the tire, it can't make any sense.
Counter-intuitive functions need to be catalog'd, organized, and systematically defeated by school-kids, or in job-training, or ANYthing.
The costs of *not* doing-so are compounding too much.
---
Perhaps a Required Lessons for each domain, & each job within that domain...
SOMEthing, though, and we need it yesterday.
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Paragone
joined 11 months ago
@JaneTheMotherfucker I don't understand why you didn't link to https://janethemotherfucker.wordpress.com/2023/12/23/shocking-truth-exposed-the-dark-underbelly-of-techrights-unveiling-its-secret-far-right-ties-and-hate-filled-agenda/
instead.
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