Pre-note: When I mention "imitation products", I mean a food item that is trying to exactly replicate a non vegan item. Something like a black bean burger is not an imitation production, it's just an alternative.

I was bored so I started creating a tier list of vegan products and how closely they imitate non vegan products. I was trying to keep the list genericized with less emphasis on specific brands, but for some items the brand was really important.

What would you move around? What would you add? I only have a few items so far. I'll update the list as comments come in.

S tier - practically indistinguishable

• Beef burgers (impossible, beyond)
• Breakfast sausages (impossible, beyond)
• Chicken nuggets/patties
• Mayo

A tier - you can tell it's different but it's just as good

• Queso dip (cashew based)
• Ground beef (impossible, beyond)
• Egg (just egg)
• Butter
• Milk
• Ice cream

B tier - you can tell it's different and it's a slight downgrade

• Deli cheese slices (some brands are C or F)

C tier - you can tell it's different and it's okay but a significant downgrade

• Cream cheese (most brands)
• Pizza

F tier - you can tell it's different and it's not good

• Beef jerky

First off, I want to point out that I am totally on team /c/fuckcars. I highly believe in transit, walking, and biking.

That being said, I think it's fair to say that:

1. Cars aren't fully going away anytime soon
2. Even in our wildest dreams, it still makes sense for cars to be usable in some way, just that the other transport methods are highly prioritized.

So the discussion I want to have is about parking garages, and the hate I see towards them from the urbanist community.

I feel like parking garages vaguely align with urbanist views, because they are high density, and they allow someone to drive to a general area after which they can do the rest of their transportation via other methods.

To put it into perspective, I'd rather have 1-3 dense parking garages in a neighborhood than have street parking along all the roads plus wide open parking lots around grocery stores and whatnot.

I understand this is a lesser of the two evils discussion but it seems to me like parking garages are the clear winner.

I recently bought some multi grain cheerios (no honey in them) that I thought were vegan friendly. After finishing the box, I realized that they fortify it with vitamin D3, sourced from sheep wool.

Shame because they seemed like a healthy, plant based source of whole grains.

Every now and then, I love playing around with tremolo, flange, envelope filter, fuzz, creating really cool synthy and ambient tones.

And then I get to a sound I think is so cool, but then it just feels like... if I could have a second clean bass playing underneath those tones, it would sound awesome.

Like realistically, 99% of the time, it just sounds better when all the fun synthy sound effects are coming from a keyboard or an electric guitar, and then you have a mostly clean bass playing underneath it all.

And then I enter a loop of going back to clean bass, then I add just a smidge of effects, then I think those effects sound cool and increase them... you get the point.

Does anyone else fall into this madness?

I somehow only just learned that daisy chaining all of your guitar pedals with the same power cable can cause extra noise. I don't have that many pedals right now which is probably why I didn't notice it.

I recognize it's probably more important for recording than for live playback, but are isolated power supplies worth it? It's a hefty price to pay.

Hi /c/vegan,

I just picked up tacos from some cheap Mexican place. They don't really do anything to cater to vegans but in the past, they basically just gave me extra rice and beans and removed any cheese, cream, or meat.

Today I ordered and they put sour cream on it. I know that this place doesn't have a vegan sour cream, so it was a mistake.

For a second I thought I wouldn't eat it, but I got in a moral debate in my head and decided that at this point, the damage is already done, and I tried my best to scrape off all the sour cream and ate the tacos.

Obviously I still consumed a decent bit of sour cream which makes me sad, but I don't know, I couldn't see it being more moral to not eat it. And I don't want to call them back and harass some minimum wage workers about it either, since they've gotten it correct in the past.

TL;DR: Cheap takeout had sour cream in it, would you scrape it off and still eat it? Throw it away? Demand a refund?

Hi /c/vegan,

I'm a baby "vegan", just started about a month ago. I started watching the YouTuber MicTheVegan as my main influence.

I've been really working on and developing my belief system. The issue is, my belief system so far, while it is like 97% consistent with veganism, does have some conflicts with veganism, and I think some people would say that I can't call myself a vegan because of that.

Basically, I think it's too broad to simply lump all animals into one category and say that any at all exploitation of them is wrong. Instead, I like taking a very scientific approach about what we know about different animals' cognitive and emotional abilities, and perhaps prioritize different groups of animals differently.

While I'm still developing my belief systems, here's a basic rundown of it:

Tier 1: Primates, cetaceans (whales, dolphins), elephants, certain bird species (corvids, parrots), octopuses

These animals are highly intelligent and should never be exploited for any manner. They should not be kept as pets or in zoos (I suppose exceptions for if an animal is injured beyond repair).

Tier 2: Domesticated mammals (dogs, cats), farm animals (pigs, cows), other bird species, certain fish species (cleaner wrasse, groupers)

The only difference between these animals and tier 1 animals, is that I believe they can be kept in captivity (pets or in zoos). However, they need to be kept up to really high standards. They need a lot of space and a lot of enrichment. Yes, I currently believe that most people who keep dogs as pets do not treat them well enough, but I also believe that if you do treat them well that it is okay.

Tier 3: Reptiles, amphibians, remaining fish species.

The only difference between these animals and tier 2 animals is that I think the standard for keeping them in captivity can be slightly lowered. I say this as a reptile lover, I have a couple lizards as pets. These animals still need very high standards for treatment, but I believe it's okay to keep them in "cages" (really terrariums and aquariums). Basically, the science we have says that these animals just don't need the same level as enrichment. Some lizards will literally sit in one spot for days. And yes, I highly believe that these animals are abused in reality. Many people keep these animals in far too small enclosures, among other problems.

The discussion of whether or not it's okay to breed these animals is highly nuanced, but I know with reptiles and amphibians, they really don't have any connection to their offspring so I don't think it's unethical to separate them. Some reptiles who lay eggs will even lay eggs regardless of if they are fertilized or not. I haven't made my mind up about it, but I think you could make an argument that you could ethically breed reptiles, maybe even argue that allowing them to breed let's them live a more natural life.

Tier 4: Insects, arachnids

Okay this is where a lot of vegans will lose me. These animals should absolutely never be tortured, but I personally think that they can be ethically farmed and consumed. I think these animals have simple enough brains that their quality of life when in a farmed environment really isn't that much different than their natural lives. I personally don't eat bugs, but I feed them to my lizards. That being said, I still think they deserve a decent amount of space, some enrichment, and a cruelty free life up until their death.

Tier 5: Bivalves (clams, mussels), annelids (earthworms), sponges.

Once again will get some hate for it, but these animals I also believe can be farmed and with even less consideration than the tier 4 animals. I don't really think these animals need any laws protecting them. They don't have central nervous systems.

Animal I'm not sure about: Crustaceans (somewhere between tier 3 and tier 4), Many fish species need more research (but I do standby that some fish, like carp and goldfish, belong in my tier 3).

I'm curious what other vegan's thoughts are about this. Can I not call myself a vegan because of this?