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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by frankPodmore@slrpnk.net to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Three possibilities come to mind:

Is there an evolutionary purpose?

Does it arise as a consequence of our mental activities, a sort of side effect of our thinking?

Is it given a priori (something we have to think in order to think at all)?

EDIT: Thanks for all the responses! Just one thing I saw come up a few times I'd like to address: a lot of people are asking 'Why assume this?' The answer is: it's purely rhetorical! That said, I'm happy with a well thought-out 'I dispute the premiss' answer.

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[-] semperverus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago

Help me understand if I am interpreting you correctly:

We have free will in a deterministic universe because feelings?

[-] bastion@feddit.nl -1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'll help:

You are not interpreting me correctly.

Edit: give a snarky response, get a snarky response.

[-] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 2 points 1 month ago

If you can reword you initial post, that would be great. I was also having trouble following what you were saying.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

If the concept of the universe being deterministic interferes with one's concept of free will, then one of these must be true:

  • the universe is nondeterministic, or has nondeterministic elements
  • one's concept of determinism is incorrect
  • one's concept of the impact of determinism on one's own free will is incorrect

But of course, that begs:

  • ones concept of free will is incorrect

But that cannot be, because your notion of free will is for you to decide, even if the universe is somehow determinate.

But that doesn't mean the universe is or is not deterministic, it just means one or more of the above three things.

Ultimately, though, I was not making an argument concerning the fundamental nature of free will and determinism, or whether or not the universe is deterministic. I was arguing for completely processing fundamental concepts before you accept them to be true, because often times we accept a lot of false implications alongside the true things we accept.

One's world view holds immense power in one's own life. People do not intentionally act in accordance with things they do not believe to be the case. To accept determinism without fully processing the implications thereof, particularly if it "feels wrong but seems true" is to enter into and sign up for those internal conflicts writ large in one's own life.

I also don't believe that the universe is absolutely deterministic, but that's a different argument that others have made better than I likely would.

[-] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 1 points 1 month ago

Okay, in other words we need to consider our assumptions and definitions of "Free will" and "Determinism" when answering this question?

I really enjoyed this video on Compatibilism, and the view of Patricia Churchland (around 5:50) where she says we should reframe the question away from "what choices we have" to "how much control do we have".

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 1 month ago

Close enough. This topic deserves significant care - of course, in the end, though, people buy into whatever they buy into.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out when YouTube is working for me again

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this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2024
96 points (91.4% liked)

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