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this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
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No Stupid Questions
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In British English, we do this a lot with 'u' sounds. For example, in London we take the Tube, which Americans pronounce 'toob' and we pronounce 'choob'. Strangely enough, almost all English speakers do this with the word 'train' and other 'tr' words without even knowing it: the first sound is not 't', it's 'ch'.
Both British and American English speakers do something similar with 's'. For example, 'issue' is pronounced 'ishoo' except by people with very strong RP accents (that is, posh people), who say 'iss-yoo'.
It's a similar phenomenon to the 'c' before 'i' and 'e' transforming into 's', e.g., in 'science', 'ceiling' and probably hundreds of other words ('cœliac' is a particular favourite). Italians do something similar, but they make it 'ch' as in 'ciao'.
Brazilian Portuguese speakers change 't' and 'd' to 'ch' and 'j' respectively before 'i' and 'e' sounds. For example, the word 'de' meaning 'of/from' is pronounced more like 'juh'. In Portugal, though, they use a hard 'd'.
So, in summary, 'e/i' and 'u' sounds all have a tendency to transform the preceding consonant, especially if that consonant is 't', 's', 'c/k' or 'd', more rarely with 'j' and 'z' and sometimes with 'b'. If and how they change varies by language and dialect.
(Note: I'd have done this with IPA but I'm not sure about Lemmy's support for it and I didn't want to type it all out and have it be a load of non-loading characters, hence my approximations of the pronunciations. Apologies to any linguists out there!)
Love the comment!
Just a note that as soon as you have "cœliac", you also have [aɪ pʰiː eɪ] (and Z̵̰̦͖̟͕͈̣͙͈͖͕̜̉̋̏̑̓͒̋̈̇̊̓̚͠͠͝Ą̷̡̪̳̳̱̞̒̂̿̓̉̈̀̽͋̚͝L̵̡̰̦̮͖̼̎̈̃̉̀̔̋̓̀̎̾́̉͝G̷̨̬̟̖͎͉͚͇̰͇̠͒͂͛́̐͑̒͊̎̂͝Ǫ̸̢̜̩̹͖͙̥̯̹̥̼̐̓͋̆̈̊̓̒͜͝ͅ), thanks to Unicode.
What if I say "ish-you"?
Well, that's just plain contrary, sir/ma'am.
I'm going to have to listen to how others with my accent say it now.
Gesundheit.
This happened in Japanese too, where the original "ti, tya, tyo" became "chi, cha, cho"! These are all types of palatalisation, which is one of the most common types of sound change across languages.
Could you give me some exemples of 'de' sounding like 'juh'? It may be because Brasil is a really big place, or a language barrier, but I never heard anyone pronounce 'de' like like that, what I commonly see, especially since I also do it, is changing 'de' to 'di' and 'do' to 'du' when speaking. Also, this happens with many words with 'o' and 'e', a lot of people just replace 'o' with 'u' and 'e' with 'i'.
It's how the Paulistanos say it, or the ones I know, anyway! I was approximating with my spelling, but perhaps it's more like 'jee'. In IPA it's dʒi.