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here is the link, its locked by the way beware of the quasi-fascists that are the western europeans
edit: its really easy to attract the islamophobes in this chat
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this post was submitted on 31 Oct 2020
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the_dunk_tank
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thats about cleanliness not religion, you people are fucking stupid
its a traditions you dense idiot, stop being such a western chauvinist and accept not everyone country is a parasitic imperialist country based in western supremacy
literally what the fuck are you talking about you fucking fool
"take off your shoes or stay out of my house" completely valid. the reason is cleanliness. theres nothing wrong with that. similarly, "dont draw muhammad in my house or go away" thats fine too
"dont draw muhammad in your own house" is fucking absurd and it's disgusting that you support it. its like a christian telling you not to have gay sex in your house because it's offensive to their religion
fuck all the way off, your religion does not have power over my fucking life
Why would you ever draw Muhammad? About the only reason anyone ever does is in an attempt to deeply insult an enormous number of people. That kind of "fuck you I do what I want" mentality doesn't garner much sympathy from me. Having a reasonable amount of respect for your fellow human beings (i.e., not doing something you would never otherwise do specifically to piss them off) is something we need more of.
Yeah, you're free to yell the N-word at the top of your lungs in public. Yeah, if a black person decides to beat you to death for it they're in the wrong, too. But my sympathy for you in that situation is limited because maybe you shouldn't be an absolute piece of shit just because you technically can.
i have never had any desire to do so and i probably never will, but it is not immoral to do so and i have every right if i did want to
Yes, that's exactly the "fuck you I do what I want" mentality I was criticizing. That makes you a massive piece of shit, even if you're technically free to do it.
You shouldn't be a massive piece of shit, and you certainly aren't accomplishing anything if you choose to be one. You should be a decent human being.
ok, imagine for a second that i tell you that, according to my religion, it is wrong to wear red on tuesdays. wearing red on tuesdays is a completely benign act im sure we can both agree, there is nothing wrong with doing so. but ill be offended if you do it.
are you an asshole for deciding to wear red on tuesday? no. of fucking course not. you're also not racist, or a lib, or a chud, or a reactionary, or any of the shit im being called in these comments.
How common is wearing red? How common is drawing a picture of Muhammad?
The reasonableness of the request is in large part determined by how burdensome it is to fulfill.
its not about whether the request is reasonable, its about whether you're an asshole or racist or whatever for refusing. and it is very very easy for you to never wear red again in your life, so surely just not wearing red for one day of the week is not that unreasonable?
if not wearing red on tuesdays were a muslim tradition, you absolutely would be calling me out the exact same way for saying i dont intend to follow that tradition
But I wear red plenty now, so it would at least be somewhat of a burden to remember not to wear red on Tuesdays. It's not a burden at all to not draw Muhammed because I never draw him anyway.
It's the going out of one's way to be as offensive as possible that makes this asshole behavior. No one's ordinary routine is being disrupted, no one's being even slightly inconvenienced.
What if you never wear red but, upon being told you're racist if you wear red on tuesdays, you decide to start wearing red on tuesdays? Does this circularly make you racist?
People don't like being told not to do harmless things because of other people's religious or personal beliefs and will often do those things as a result of being told not to do them because, again, they are harmless things that should not be stigmatized. Drawing pictures of any human who has ever lived or will ever live is a harmless activity which should not get you called racist or an asshole. It doesn't matter if this is just one guy and you could draw any of the other guys who have ever lived, there is no reason not to draw him.
If I never did something -- let's call it drawing a picture of Muhammad -- but I started doing it specifically to piss off a group of people my country has demonized and killed by the millions, yes, I would be an enormous piece of shit.
The teacher who was beheaded did not draw the prophet. The elderly woman and man who were beheaded in the church in Nice did not draw the prophet.
Note that a few comments up I've already said killing someone over this is wrong. No one is arguing that people should get the death penalty for drawing Muhammad. The argument is that you're a huge asshole if you do, because there's no reason to do it besides pissing people off.
no one has ever said "don't draw Muhammad in your own house"??? where the hell are you getting this from. nobody is asking you to not draw Muhammad in private, that's absurd and irrelevant to the question. this whole discourse is about western reactionaries intentionally enflaming the situation by drawing Muhammad outwardly, usually in racist big-nosed depictions i might add.
a muslim's right to tell a person what they can and can not draw based on religious rules end at their own doorstep. i dont care if they're drawing muhammad and then printing it on flags and flying those flags on every street corner in the entire world, it literally does not matter and anyone who gets upset at them for it is responsible for their own feelings, because no one has any obligation to respect rules specific to their religion
so once again, "drawing Muhammad in your own home" is not the question at hand here, you accept this. now you need to accept that nobody gives a shit about questioning the "morality" of drawing Muhammad in a vacuum just as no leftist with half a brain thinks the literal letter structure of the n-word is morally evil on its own. we're talking about cultural contexts. and just as it's morally wrong to go out of your way to be racist towards black people, it's morally wrong to go out of your way to be racist towards Muslims. and it takes a bizarre amount of effort in this context as well, i mean you are arguing for the right for people to make elaborate art just to be racist.
there is literally nothing racist about drawing muhammad as a statement that you dont respect religious guidelines, just in the same way there's nothing racist about waving a pride flag in a christian's face. when people try to impose their religious rules on you and you decide to go out of your way to disrespect those rules, that isnt fucking racist.
these people the OP is talking about are almost certainly racist, yes, but it is not racist to draw muhammad
muslims are a race, and its racist to draw muhammad now, read the room my friend. this is the way of things. stop trying to conflate everything under the western conception of "religion" as if you can approach them all in the exact same way, you imperialist fuck. come to each one humbly with your head bowed, and attempt to learn something new about a different culture, for once in your fucking life.
what the fuck is wrong with you lmao this is absurd
race is a social construct and not a biological one, and if you spend 5 seconds looking at the Western discourse you will see that Muslims have undergone racialization. how have you missed this?
ok, if they're a race then they don't have religious rules i need to respect because races are something you are born into and not sets of beliefs that you follow and impose on others
sure, if that's the tack you want to go on. now that we've established islam has been racialized, and that it's extremely obvious that plastering drawings of Muhammad on the walls has been weaponized as form of racial oppression (again take 5 seconds to look at the discourse), can we agree it's fucking racist to do it? and there's precedence of course - culture is a fickle thing and anything can be turned into a slur with enough effort by racists, and we're not even talking about a word, we're talking about elaborately drawing something lmao.
why is it racial oppression to draw pictures of some guy? it's against muslims religious beliefs, but we're not talking about a religion here, we're talking about a race.
because racists have turned it into racial oppression? i just said culture is a fickle thing and this is how racial slurs and racial oppression develops, just look at blackface.
blackface is mockery of a specific race's features. drawing muhammad is mockery of a specific religion's rules. how is there any similarity?
i don't know how many times i have to keep saying this - racial oppression develops culturally, meaning there could be no logic to it but it becomes racist anyway due to the usage by racists for that purpose. for example, a lot of slurs have literally no etymological meaning, such as the "G" word used against Asians. you are trying to make racism seem logical, when it isn't and never has been.
so when and how am i allowed to criticize those who wish to impose their religious rules on me?
it's just a word guys stop imposing your rules on me i can say it whenever i want
is being black a religion?
Can't you read?
no, but being black could be described as a "din" interestingly enough, which Islam describes itself as, as the English word "religion" and its connotations did not exist in classical Arabic. Would you like to learn things from an Islamic perspective, considering you "have never knowingly interacted with a muslim"?
ok so how do i state my disinterest in following their religious rules without being racist?
No one asks that you follow ramadan don't work on fridays or quit eating pork. You can even draw mohammed in your own home. But drawing muhammad in our society with it's context has been made into a racist attack on Muslims. I don't know if dogwhistle is the right term, but it is similar, i think.