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Activist says trans people can’t trust Democrats to protect them anymore
(www.independent.co.uk)
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this post was submitted on 15 Dec 2024
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You’re claiming the Democratic Party hasn’t supported the trans community?
When the leading candidate avoids the issue, gives less representation to trans people than the preceding candidates, and says "states rights" in response to growing repression of trans people when pushed to say something in an interview, I think its fair to say the Dem leadership has abandoned us. Individual dems are better, but the leadership clearly doesn't care.
If you want to turn on the Democratic Party you’ll get a stronger GOP. Your move.
The GOP just swept the nation. All three branches of government. Both houses. Seems to me supporting the Democratic Party made the GOP stronger already. Maybe we need a new party.
You think democrats didn’t get enough votes because they had too much support? That doesn’t make sense.
3rd party is guaranteed to fail with first past the post. But it sounds like you’re arguing in bad faith in favor of the GOP. So maybe that’s what you want.
I'm saying that you're wasting your time supporting a party that's incompetent. Don't support a third party. Destroy the Democratic Party. Below it the fuck up. Let the Democratic party die a brutal death. Start our own party.
Do I really need to post the CGP Grey video again for the 12th time? I don't think I do. You all know the one.
You can post it if you want but you would only be proving you missed the point completely.
That’s the same as saying give the GOP all the power.
How?
Also they already have all the power.
They have a slim majority. Giving them more seats in Congress gives them the ability to pass more legislation that would otherwise not have enough votes.
You should learn about how voting in Congress works.
Their majority is overwhelming for what they need it to be. You have far too much faith in the Democrats to block the Trump administration's movements then they deserve. Half the Democrats cave every time. Partly because half of them are actually okay with people Trump's going to be a nominating. They want the destruction of the regulatory framework of our nation. They want a return to the Gilded Age. They work for the same people. That's the reason why Kamala Harris was courting all those techbro billionaires who were all braying to get rid of Lena Khan. It's going to be much easier for Trump this time. He has an overwhelming majority of the the courts, he has the expanded Powers the presidency, he has a senate majority with only a feckless minority to balance it, he also has more than enough in the house. It's going to be much much worse.
I'm not sure why you think I'm saying the GOP will get more seats. I'm not saying we split the ticket next time around. I'm saying we destroy the Democratic party to the point they have less of a national impact than the green party has now. If we do that we'll overwhelm the Republicans. We will win in landslides. A party that's based on the working class. A party that's based on actual American needs. A party that can harness the fury of an American people being oppressed by an oligarchic class? That party will be unstoppable. That party will never be the Democratic Party, ever. The Democratic party has aligned itself to become the loyal minority, that's all they want to be. It's not enough.
Right now republicans have about the same majority that democrats had in the last two years. Just enough to be called a majority but not enough to easily pass anything. For you to show that you don’t understand that says a lot.
No they absolutely do not, I don't even know how you pretend to think that's true.
I'm saying they're willing to throw them under the bus as soon as it gets difficult. Being silent while a few members do so explicitly isn't being an ally.
Infighting works to the GOPs advantage. If the DNC starts attacking the few members they have in office they will switch to the GOP. Giving the people who want to eradicate the trans community more power.
What difference does it make if they lose so hard anyway that they are politically impotent?
The difference is: to win you need as many people voting against the GOP as possible.
I see we’ve learned nothing from the election. “I’m less shit than my opponent” is not a winning play.
Instead why don’t we ask why over a third of the electorate doesn’t bother voting? For either side.
What does this have to do with inflation aka the reason democrats lost?
Saying you need more votes than just the trans community and their allies to beat the GOP is not saying “I’m less shit than my opponent”.
I did, they said they don’t care about politics.
Move the goalposts if it makes you feel you’re forming a better argument; the by-line from your and prior comments was about infighting and criticism of the party, and that they don’t represent the people the party claims to cares about. Inflation wasn’t part of this discussion, but it honestly reinforces my point. “Tariffs bad” yes tariffs are bad, what is the party going to do about the real economic harm that voters feel from rising cost of living? Gaslight them some more? Point to line going up on the S&P as ‘progress’ and then wonder why working poor stay home every cycle? Maybe that’s why they’re disinterested in politics?
I haven’t moved the goalpost. The prior comments were talking about infighting and criticism of the party and your comment brought up the recent election specifically.
Democrats lost the recent election because of inflation experienced during Bidens term.
Infighting and criticism creates apathy that lowers voter turnout. It is a key component of FUD, an effective strategy that is used in online communities like this one.
Both are true.
Since there won't be a major election for another two years, now seems like a perfect time to criticize the hell out of Democrats.
Those criticisms don’t disappear at election time. They get used as ammo by bad faith actors to convince voters to not vote/vote 3rd party/vote GOP.
Giving the GOP more power
So we're not allowed to criticize Democrats ever? How is that supposed to result in a functional political system?
No one said ever. The more criticism there is for democrats the lower their chances of winning will be. That’s a matter of fact. Do with it what you want.
Winning at the cost of our most fundamental values and freedoms is no true victory. As long as the Democrats continue to betray their progressive base for corporate donors they deserve all the criticism they receive. If your reason for voting is to keep the greater evil out of power then criticizing the lesser evil isn't going to change your mind. Only low-information voters might change their minds in response to hearing criticism of the Democrats, but no amount of finger-wagging is going to shield the Democrats from the consequences of their own actions.
So when it comes to trans rights you don’t feel there is any difference between the GOP being in power vs Democrats.
Of course there is a difference. The Democrats are a lesser evil by a pretty large margin, I don't dispute that. The point I'm making is that your constant chastisement of anyone who criticizes the Democrats from the left is counter-productive and betrays a deep insecurity in the merits of the party. When a party is unable to withstand criticism from its own base that's a problem with the party, not the base. You can blame voters all you want for the Democrats' loss, but it won't fix the problems the party has that led to this outcome. Criticism - and more importantly an adequate response to that criticism from the party itself - is necessary if the party is ever to recover.
FUD exists as a strategy because it works. All you have to do is criticize to sow apathy and reduce voter turnout.
Yes, the thing about FUD is you can't stop it, and by fighting it you only make it worse, especially when there are legitimate reasons to doubt. The best response to FUD is to make the criticism look stupid by proving it wrong with action. Trying to shut down criticism makes you look weak, and makes the criticism seem more valid, even when it isn't.
That doesn’t work in this scenario because democrats need more than the trans community to win elections. So they have to also win over voters that are anti trans.
And there it is. Let me ask you, how exactly do you think the Democrats should appeal to "anti-trans voters" without losing the trans and trans ally vote?
There’s no easy answer to that but until the trans community and their allies have a voting majority, it is a requirement that democrats appeal to both.
You're right that the answer isn't easy, but there is one and the Democrats have known it for some time, they're just not willing to do it. First, look at the driving force of anti-trans sentiment. It's economics. Trump and the like redirect the righteous anger people feel about their economic situation towards minorities by creating a narrative that is easy to understand and plays into pre-existing prejudices. The Democrats could do the same thing but direct the anger towards the wealthy instead of minorities. People have pre-existing prejudices towards "elites," and the narrative that the wealthy are the cause of your suffering has the advantage of being true. If the Democrats did this it wouldn't matter if they also go to bat for the trans community, because the average "anti-trans voter" doesn't actually care that much about trans issues, but are rather using the trans community as a stand-in to recieve their anger in the absence of a more compelling narrative.
Yeah, no. Economics isnt the driving force behind the anti-trans sentiment. That’s ridiculous
It's tied in to the broad cultural narrative that Republicans create and reinforce through their media, which is designed for the purpose of transforming economic anxiety into anger at minorities. The trans community can be said to be collateral, since the Republicans don't directly (keyword here) blame them for the state of the economy, but they represent the perception of "elites" who are culturally strange and different. The entire conservative narrative is about making the economic cultural. Bigotry is deliberately fueled by displaced anger. The anger must come from somewhere.
So if nobody is saying that, when do we get to criticize Democrats? Be specific.
They really haven't. They tend to take a neutral stance at best, rather than positively affirming trans rights. This was one of the things that killed them in the election. Despite being a decade in to the recent Republican war on trans people, Democrats have never bothered to develop a set of coherent talking points that they can defend trans rights around. When was the last time you heard a centrist Democrat say, "trans women are women, trans men are men. Their healthcare is medically necessary and life-saving. Trans women belong in women's restrooms and trans men in men's. Republicans are currently guilty of attempting a genocide."
That's the kind of talking points they should be using, a full-throated defense of trans rights that can directly stand up against Republican hate mongering. Instead, if they respond at all, they respond in a pathetic mincing way that tries to "both sides" the issue. Instead of vocally coming down firmly on the side of trans rights, they'll say things like, "these are complex issues...." or "these issues are a distraction..." You would never see a Democrat say that antisemitism is "a distraction" or that defending abortion rights "are a complex issue."
With some notable exceptions, Democrats have completely failed to actually have strong support for trans rights. Republicans are anti-trans and pro-trans genocide. Democrats are neutral. And this really hurt them in the election. Republicans supported full trans elimination. And Democrats could only respond with non-committal mealy-mouthed mumbling about the complexity of the issue. Voters saw that they really didn't stand for anything. Kamala didn't really believe in anything when it comes to trans rights, and the voters punished her for it. Voters want people who actually believe in something, not an empty suit that is just following polls and focus groups.
The fact of the matter is the majority of America doesn’t treat trans people properly. So to win elections they need the support of people that don’t treat trans people properly.
I hope that support for the trans community will continue to improve over time. But democrats need votes from more than just the trans community and allies to take power back from the GOP.
They don't though, because they're never going to get that voter either way.
Why would you assume this? There are already voters of all types voting for both parties.
The Democrats are a coalition party. They need to be able to stand up for all of the members of that coalition. Do you know why Republicans chose to attack trans people? Because it is a wedge issue they can use to cleave off a portion of Democratic votes. If Democrats throw trans people under the bus and sit idly by to genocide, then they will lose the votes of trans people and their friends, relatives, and allies.
When has appeasing genocide ever worked for an opposition party? The problem Democrats have is that they're embarrassed to be Democrats and try to run as Republican-lite. Then they look up surprised when people vote for the real deal or simply stay home out of disgust. The biggest appeal of Democrats among the electorate is that they're willing to stand up for marginalized groups. And if one group gets thrown under the bus, every other group knows that they can also be thrown under the bus in the future if the political winds shift. Trans people are on the chopping block now, but after we're exterminated, what other group will the Democrats willingly sacrifice? All Republicans have to do is run another demonization campaign against another group, and Democrats will again fold like a house of cards.
If Republicans can get Democrats to fruitlessly piss away 5-10% of their core electorate in a doomed attempt to appeal to moderate Republicans, then that is a strategy that Republicans can use again and again to cleave piece after piece off of the Democratic coalition.
Republicans chose trans people as a wedge. They gambled that, when push came to shove, Democrats would be too chicken shit to actually live up to their stated values and truly defend the rights of people that they're always promising to defend. Democrats proved Republicans right, and that cost them the election. They were defeated by their own cowardice.
The problem democrats have is they are trying to support minority groups like the trans community that are not popular with the majority of voters. So they have to strike a balance between supporting the trans community without losing voters that don’t support the trans community. Because they needs those voters to win.
The GOP knows this and that is why they made the trans community a big part of their campaign. It creates infighting in the Democratic Party which helps the GOP win.
A popular way of doing this these days is to create accounts on social media or forums to inflame conversation and cause that infighting that helps the GOP win.
They didn't lose votes for supporting trans rights, because they didn't actually support trans rights. Republicans pretended they did, but they didn't actually support trans rights. Currently Democrats are suffering the negative side of supporting trans rights, but without the positives that come with actually sticking up for marginalized groups in a meaningful way.
Na, the Democratic Party supports trans rights. The GOP used it against them and you are too.