Can Ukraine sustain its F-16 fleet if Trump halts US aid? (kyivindependent.com)

submitted 1 week ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/ukraine@sopuli.xyz

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[-] elucubra@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Short answer: yes. Long answer: yes.

BTW, F16s are not as the article says 5th gen fighters. They are 4th gen, and early blocks at that. they are almost discards. They are obsolete fighters that are being replaced by modern fighters by the nations donating them. There is no goody goodness here. Ukraine is being used to use up old stock to replenish with shinier stuff.

Have European countries sent Eurofighters, or Rafales, or Leopards 2A6s? Hmmm....

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 64 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

There is no goody goodness here.

Those F-16 fighters could have been sold instead of giving them away.
I'm from Denmark, and I find it absolutely disgusting that you try to diminish our help to Ukraine in that way.
The delivery of those planes required a lot of training and preparations, and we are also helping with maintenance. And I expect other donor countries are doing the same.
Ukraine wanted these fighters very much, and they have actively saved Ukrainian lives. Shooting down Russian missiles.

Yes the fact that F-16 is being replaced makes it easier to give them to Ukraine, as replacements are already ordered.
But the thing is, the stuff we give to Ukraine needs to be available relatively quickly. And something not made yet cannot be quickly delivered.
Denmark also gave Ukraine all of our bran new artillery direct from factories in France.
Ukraine is definitely not just receiving old discarded shit. And although F-16 is old, it's not obsolete, especially not to defend against Russian equipment.

So please piss off with such offensive comments.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io -5 points 1 week ago

And something not made yet cannot be quickly delivered.

That is NOT an acceptable excuse when the topic is something used in war. If NATO gets into a world war will will need to go from 150 per year to 150 per day in just a few months (and of course have the ability to train enough people to operate them at similar rates). Your excuse allows the enemy (who ever they are) time to win the war while the rest of us are scaling production instead of fighting.

[-] Railcar8095@lemm.ee 6 points 1 week ago

That is NOT an acceptable excuse

Correct. It's a perfectly logic reason, not an excuse. I'm all in for Ukraine, but giving what you don't yet have instead of what you actually have is just nonsensical.

[-] bluGill@fedia.io -3 points 6 days ago

But we should have all that - or at least t ability to make it fast

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

You know USA has a defense budget about as big as the next 10 biggest military budgets by country combined.
F-35 is made in USA, and even they can't do what you are asking. Having unused production capacity cost money, and yields nothing.
This situation with Russia is completely unheard of since WW2, which ended 79 years ago!
You claim we should have prepared better for a situation everybody tried to avoid except Putin, and almost everybody frankly thought was unthinkable today.

Instead of the insanity you promote, we for instance created EU in Europe, with a specific purpose to help prevent war in Europe.
We have managed to keep the peace on our side, it's only the former Warsaw pact side that has created problems, because they did not have similar goals ingrained in the cooperation between them.

What you propose is one sided heavy military build up and preparedness, and that has historically always ended in war. Warmongering is not a way to keep the peace.
But now we DO have a war by Russia at our doorstep, and we commonly agree Russia needs to be stopped now, or else they will continue.

But that doesn't mean that what you claim we should have done about weapons production was ever justified previous to this situation. Not even when viewed in hindsight. Europe is a force for peace, but not under oppression from Russia, which is a major reason why we help Ukraine.