this post was submitted on 30 Jun 2025
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Hi all, Something that I'm curious about with regards to China and the CPC are the different ideological factions that exist in the present day, particularly with regards to economic strategy, at home and abroad.

Going off of @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net's many useful comments in the news mega regarding Chinese trade policy, its commitment to dollarization, and continuing the export-led growth model that it has benefited from, I am curious to know what kind of discussions are taking place within the CPC between what I assume to be various liberal and left factions related to these topics. I know the party is lock-step when it comes time to make decisions, but surely there are many CPC members within the national congress who have differing views about how they should navigate the evolving international situation with a belligerent US and a global south that desperately wants more sovereignty and an end to Western unilateralism.

Is there any way a Westerner can be privvy to these kind of conversations within the Chinese government? Thanks!

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[–] Hmm@hexbear.net 5 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

To me he sounds opportunist with his continual references to expanding the "socialist" market economy (which walks and talks like capitalist commodity production). If he is a Marxist, why is he not openly criticizing these bourgeois economists in China that @xiaohongshu@hexbear.net mentioned and emphasizing a return to broader study of Marxist political economy?

Reform and Opening up Is Always Ongoing and Will Never End

Reform and opening up is a long-term and arduous cause, and people need to work on it generation after generation. We should carry out reform to improve the socialist market economy of China, and adhere to the basic state policy of opening up to the outside world. We must further reform in key sectors with greater political courage and vision, and forge ahead steadily in the direction determined by the Party’s 18th National Congress.

On the Governance of China, p. 87 of the English Translation

The “Invisible Hand” and the “Visible Hand”

We should let the market play the decisive role in allocating resources, while allowing the government to better perform its functions. This is a theoretical and practical issue of great importance. A correct and precise understanding of this issue is very important to further the reform and promote the sound and orderly development of the socialist market economy. We should make good use of the roles of both the market, the “invisible” hand, and the government, the “visible” hand. The market and the government should complement and coordinate with each other to promote sustained and sound social and economic development.

Ibid., p. 134

Revolutionize Energy Production and Consumption

...

Fourth, we must revolutionize the energy market. We will proceed with reform, restore energy’s status as a commodity, build a system of workable competition, and put in place a mechanism in which energy prices are largely driven by the market. In addition, we will change the way that the government supervises the energy industry, and establish and improve the legal framework for energy development.

Ibid., p. 149

(I credit this essay with making me aware of these statements: Against Dengism by The Red Spectre.)

[–] jack@hexbear.net 4 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Against Dengism by The Red Spectre

This article's pretty garbo. It relies entirely on quotes from Lenin and Stalin rather than any actual materialist, data-driven analysis. The argumentation is pathetic across the board and simply dismisses any positions it doesn't like as "non-Marxist". Statements like this:

We already established that Capital exists, We also established Capital always takes control of any state or society it exists in given enough time, no exceptions. It follows that China cannot be a Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

This is pure idealism. Capital is not god, it does not exist above reality, it does not wield infinite power - it too is subject to the rules and dynamics of the society it exists within.

It is not a revelation that China uses capitalist systems. A tiny number of decontextualized quotes from Xi hardly proves anything. The Governance of China is filled with quotes advocating for the long struggle to communism, against revisionist and reformist tendencies within the party, and demands for ideological struggle within the party ala Combat Liberalism against bad party cadre derailing the project. You should actually give it a read and you'll see a a comrade with a deep, practical understanding of Marxism. Here's an example:

It should be fully admitted that most of our officials are firm in their ideals and convictions, and are politically reliable. Nevertheless, there are some Party officials who fail to meet these qualifications. Some are skeptical about communism, considering it a fantasy that will never come true; some do not believe in Marxism-Leninism but in ghosts and gods, and seek spiritual solace in feudal superstitions, showing intense interest in fortune-telling, worship of Buddha and “god’s advice” for solving their problems; some have little sense of principle, justice, and right and wrong, and perform their duties in a muddle-headed manner; some even yearn for Western social systems and values, losing their confidence in the future of socialism; and others adopt an equivocal attitude towards political provocations against the leadership of the CPC, the path of socialism with Chinese characteristics and other matters of principle, passively avoid relevant arguments without the courage to express their opinions, or even deliberately deliver ambiguous messages.

And here's Xi on Stalin and the USSR:

Why did the Soviet Union disintegrate? Why did the Communist Party of the Soviet Union fall to pieces? An important reason is that in the ideological domain, competition is fierce! To completely repudiate the historical experience of the Soviet Union, to repudiate the history of the CPSU, to repudiate Lenin, to repudiate Stalin was to wreck chaos in Soviet ideology and engage in historical nihilism. It caused Party organizations at all levels to have barely any function whatsoever. It robbed the Party of its leadership of the military. In the end the CPSU—as great a Party as it was—scattered like a flock of frightened beasts! The Soviet Union—as great a country as it was—shattered into a dozen pieces. This is a lesson from the past!

But again, those are just quotes from a guy. We are dialectical materialists, and therefore we must look at material conditions and systems in practice.

the "socialist" market economy (which walks and talks like capitalist commodity production)

It does neither of those things. The results of the Chinese economic system since reform and opening up are unlike the achievements of any capitalist country or economy in history. The CPC continues in their five year plans and other plans to lay out a slow, sensible path in building socialism and, with great consistency, meets and exceeds the goals of those plans in objective, measurable terms. While your article above argues that planning is impossible with the existence of private capital, China has successfully carried out almost every single effort of its plans through the domination of private capital by the CPC and state economy.

Your article simply says that the poverty reduction is irrelevant, that it doesn't matter, who cares. Again, idealism - the objective of socialism is the elimination of deprivation and exploitation through the construction of a commonly held, democratic economy. China has made obvious objective progress towards that outcome. The #1 desire of the Chinese people was the alleviation of their wretched poverty. This has been achieved in one sense, the absolute sense, but many Chinese still live in relative poverty - their basic needs are secured, but the opportunity to live comfortable, leisurely lives does not yet exist across the board. For a country of such gargantuan scale, that is a long, arduous process. The dismissal of its necessity is ultraleftist/anarchist impatience and idealism.

It is exactly when this enormous project of absolute poverty elimination was completed that we see the start of a decline in capitalist power within China. See this: https://www.piie.com/research/piie-charts/2024/chinas-private-sector-has-lost-ground-state-sector-has-gained-share-among.

[–] RedSailsFan@hexbear.net 1 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Capital is not god

well now i feel obligated to link Ian Wright's essay Marx on Capital as a Real God lol. regardless i dont think they are wrong here actually, i agree that given enough time that capital will eventually crush the CPC if they dont destroy it first sometime in the future, but they also put forth no argument about how long this proccess takes and from what i remember of that article nothing truly convincing was ever given aside from rent section