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Combining two different internet debates
(sopuli.xyz)
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this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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Yeah definitely A. The momentum of the object going through the portal matters not the objective that has the portal on it.
But how would the objects get on the other side then? The receiving side isn't moving, so the objects essentially need to be pushed through the portal at the speed at which the train is moving, resulting in B. The only way A could work would be both portals moving at the same relative speed.
I see it like throwing a hoola hoop around something. The object will pass through without having its speed affected.
But with a hula hoop, both sides of the "portal" are moving at the same speed, so the momentum of the subject is unchanged. That's not the case presented in this post
That's a good point.
Here's how I always phase it. Imagine you have a shovel and you are using that shovel to flick some dog shit into your neighbours garden.
With no portal the shit hits the shovel and you flick it, transfering the speed of the shovel into the turds. You stop the shovel and the turds fly away.
Now imagine the shovel has a big rusty hole in it. So it's like a n shape. No portal yet. You go to flick the dog dumps but you just pass straight over them with the hole and the dumps go nowhere. The dumps have gained no momentum because nothing touched them and transferred that to them.
Now put a portal on the end of the shovel. As you sweep it over the cack has anything touched them? Has any object transferred it's momentum to the dog eggs? No, so the dumps just gently tumble out of the other side of the portal.
Imagine there being 2 portals on the shovel one on the front and one on the back Whatever passes through remains in the same place. THIS is the actual analoge for the rusty hole. Entering the first portal the shit gains the speed of the shovel but since the exit portal is also traveling with the same speed but facing the opposite direction, it effectively cancels out the previous speed gain. Imagine it like the first portal adding one unit of speed to it and the exit one adding minus one unit of speed because of the opposite direction.
So now with one portal on the shovel and the other somewhere on a wall the shit gets accelerated and you will feel a force acting on the shovel that decelerates it's swing.
Velocity is relative and this is why it works. If velocity wasn't relative then Einstein would be wrong and many of the effects we see in the real world could never happen.
Nuh-uh. The gift from the rump don't make no jump
I didn't have a proper argument to begin with dude. It's a meme about video game concepts and I'm talking about flicking shite with a shovel. What made you think this was a serious debate?
But even in the image example, how would that work? The people have no momentum, they wouldn’t flop out, just fall back through, and then stay half in half not. According to you, air resistance wouldn’t even push them out because as soon as it goes through the portal the air is not moving relative to the people. I think your blatant lack of respect for relativity is unnerving and gets super confusing very quickly.
Nuh-uh. Flicking dog turds
🤮
I think that's a very strong argument and a great metaphor, but you forget relativity.
All reference frames are valid - you could say the Earth and the people are moving and the train is stationary, you could say the train is moving and the earth and people are stationary, or you could say they each have a vector moving around the sun or anything else
But when you travel through a portal, the only valid reference frames are you and the entry portal. Your momentum relative to the Earth doesn't matter - why would it? You can open a portal to the moon and jump through, and we see momentum is preserved. The Earth isn't a special reference frame, it's just the most noticeable one.
So let's pick the reference frame of someone on the track. Let's look through the portal and say there's a sign on the other side - as it approaches, you'd see a sign approaching you through the portal. Relative to you, through the portal the sign is moving at 30mph. The portal passes over you - you haven't moved, but you enter a new reference frame, a frame in which the Earth and everything on it is moving at 30mph
Speed, and by extension momentum, is relative. I'm sorry, but Einstein got you.
Except the momentum changes with portals most of the time anyway. Momentum is a vector, not just a scalar, meaning momentum has both a scalar and a direction component. And that direction component usually must be conserved as well. But portals change the direction of momentum all the time relative to the orientation of the entering and exiting portals. If the direction of the momentum of the object is relative to the orientation of the portal, then it makes as much sense that the scalar of the momentum would be relative to the velocity of the portal as well.
Energy is not conserved either, which is why the infinite falling box arrangement means the box keeps accelerating downwards gaining kinetic energy even though it started out with a much smaller, finite potential energy. Portals and conservation do not mix well.
As the people on the track are moving at an accelerated speed of 0 m/s, normally a train would apply the full force of the train moving to the ~~meat bags~~ human ethic problems on the tracks.
As newton's first law states F = m*a, or Force = Mass * acceleration
F = x * 0 = 0 N of force
thus, they could just plop out as if falling after having a chair removed.