this post was submitted on 21 May 2026
-2 points (37.5% liked)

General Discussion

14439 readers
13 users here now

Welcome to Lemmy.World General!

This is a community for general discussion where you can get your bearings in the fediverse. Discuss topics & ask questions that don't seem to fit in any other community, or don't have an active community yet.


πŸͺ† About Lemmy World


🧭 Finding CommunitiesFeel free to ask here or over in: !lemmy411@lemmy.ca!

Also keep an eye on:

For more involved tools to find communities to join: check out Lemmyverse!


πŸ’¬ Additional Discussion Focused Communities:


Rules and Policies

Remember, Lemmy World rules also apply here.0. See: Rules for Users.

  1. No bigotry: including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
  2. Be respectful. Everyone should feel welcome here.
  3. Be thoughtful and helpful: even with β€˜silly’ questions. The world won’t be made better by dismissive comments to others on Lemmy.
  4. Link posts should include some context/opinion in the body text when the title is unaltered, or be titled to encourage discussion.
  5. Posts concerning other instances' activity/decisions are better suited to !fediverse@lemmy.world or !lemmydrama@lemmy.world communities.
  6. No Ads/Spamming.
  7. No NSFW content.

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/47165348

I noticed many people believe, that Western countries ranking low on corruption indexes, shows they aren't corrupt as hell.

To me this just means it's at a higher, much harder to prove level.

Instead of starting at the cop level (which is still possible with connections), it starts at the points where multi-millions can be made without anyone really noticing.

E.g. farm land > residential use, construction projects, sale of government properties, favors for corps etc.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

A little bit more research, it seems that you are referring to indexes like Tue "Corruption Perceptions Index" by Transparency International. Looking into that one in particular, they seem to use data from all sorts of institutions, standardised for a 0-100 scale. No country has a perfect score of 100, meaning all nations are corrupt to some degree according to this index.

Some reading of the documents outlining their results and methodology (wow, Transparency International is pretty transparent!) show that they only use data when there they come from multiple sources, omitting one-offs. They also add a measure of uncertainty, since sources will differ for each nation.

Looking at their map, you can see a general idea of the levels of corruption across the world. This index highlights that countries that are more corrupt generally have fewer freedoms and are more authoritarian. When there are fewer checks in place, those in power tend to be more corrupt. Areas with a lot of conflict, such as Somalia (9) and Syria (15), tend to have more corruption as well.

In 2025, they note that many democracies around the world have worsening corruption, like the United States (64), the UK (70), France (66), New Zealand (81), Sweden (80), etc. In many of these places, it is due to the rollback and weakening of anti corruption legislation.

Many low-scoring countries are slowly improving! They highlight Albania (39), Laos (34), Senegal (46), Ukraine (36), and others for their efforts in reform. They still have ways to to though, with scores below 50.

Additionally, some middle to high scoring countries are also improving, like Estonia (76), South Korea (63), Bhutan (71), Seychelles (68), etc. due to their adoption of stronger justice systems.

The report notes that declines in CPI are mostly due to a combination of the breaking of democratic integrity and independent institutions. Gains in CPI are typically due to greater rights, media freedom, and access to information. They also note that many authoritarian nations have used their control to clamp down on corruption with an iron fist, mentioning that it is effective against bribery, but believe that this approach is not sustainable for all types of corruption, and that they could easily be reversed based on a change in the political environment.

The report also highlights many protests in various nations based around the perceived corruption of political leaders, like in Nepal.

I have sourced this mainly from their published 2025 report on CPI, as well as their basic description of their methodology found on their website.

[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

On Wikipedia, the CPI has a criticisms section highlight many of its flaws. You could read up on that if you want. There are plenty of articles on this too.

The TLDR seems to be: not politically motivated, the CPI isn't blatant propaganda. However, it does not cover all forms of corruption, it has a bias towards "perceived" corruption, and it is strongly biased against lower income nations.

As with many of these kinds of indexes, they are a decent-ish generalisation of the issue but are not enough to accurately depect such a complex topic.

[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 week ago

A bit more reading has found that many people criticise CPI as it cannot fully represent all kinds of corruption, especially those in lower income areas.

There are people on both sides, arguing that places like China should be lower on the index, since "perceived" corruption could be influenced by China's strict control of the media. Others note that the index does not account for cultural differences and is biased towards perceived corruption over actual improvements, and that China should have a better score due to their efforts in cracking down corruption. But both sides agree that a simple index cannot cover the complex nature of corruption, which has many layers to it.

I don't think the index itself is politically motivated, at least not in the sense of being complete propaganda fabricated by the Americans. They do highlight the improvements and declines in the transparency of institutions and strength of justice systems around the world.

However, a single number cannot cover the wide topic of corruption, and there is no distinction between the different forms of corruption.

One more thing, I found an article by "the British academy" written by Professor Pail Heywood from the University of Nottingham relating to this topic. They say that Transparency International is helping to increase media attention and public awareness of corruption, and has helped to push many nations to adopt anti-corruption legislation.

However, he highlights that it is flawed in that it's biased towards perception of corruption. noting that they focus too much on bribery (since many of the CPI's sources are from business executives and the like), and that one number can't accurate represent corruption in an entire territory, and that corruption can vary oj a local level.

Professor Heywood's main point of criticism though is how it puts some nations into a poverty trap, where aid is restricted for lower income countries, as they lack the strong democratic institutions that are deemed by the CPI as necessary to combat corruption, yet those are the nations where liberal democracy is incredibly difficult to establish.

I am unsure of this professor's reputation, but he seems to know what he's talking about at least. I'm not any sort of political scientist or international relations expert, so take it for what you will.

[–] madeindex@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Yes, I was looking into indexes like that, it's just funny to me that in many western countries in billions of dollars disappear in one "dirty lil deal", the witnesses get silenced, the evidence disappears, the investigations stop, while many of those "red ones" probably total that amount in a year ;)

[–] sbeak@sopuli.xyz 1 points 1 week ago

Note that very few countries have what is considered a low level of corruption (which they seem to define as 80+). Additionally, they note that corruption is increasing in many of these "western" countries, like the United States, Canada, France, and the UK.

But these indexes generally aren't very helpful, as I have highlighted in my comments. There's a lot of criticism on these kinds of indexes that generalise these big issues.