this post was submitted on 29 May 2026
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I think anyone that enjoys eating meat should have to kill the animal the meat comes from atleast once in their life.
It's seems psychopathic to never think about the animal their meat used to be or the life they lived before they were your food.
I've killed my own chickens for meat. I cared for them since they hatched and made sure they had a great life. Killing them was not fun, but I made sure to do it with as little suffering as possible.
I just saw the last meal episode with Alton Brown, he had a bit where he echoed pretty much exactly this. He went to work as a lamb slaughterer for 3 days, and hasn't eaten any lamb since until that last meal episode, and he also says lamb is the best meat in the world.
I enjoy eating meat,
I could also enjoy the natural balance of having to kill my own food rather then relying on the industrial grinder.
I could definitely enjoy the thrill and sport of the hunt.
I could never enjoy killing an animal,
trying to make it as quick and painless is an essential part of hunting.
Luring a deer with frozen corn and then sledgehammer to the head is a psychotic and has nothing to do with hunting for food unless your actually starving and there is no other way.
Roofing hammer is probably as close to the bolt guns they in slaughter houses use to kill cows as painlessly as possible.
They are pointy and would go right into the brain, not butch like a sledge hammer at all.
However wheee I live it’s illegal to hunt deer with bait. So oddly, giving them a last meal before death is illegal.
Also we have a massive deer overpopulation and it’s killing off Moose because of the spread of ticks. We really need more coyotes and wolves, and less warm winters, but the fucking Republicans won’t let us fix those things.
So your gut tells you the killing part is a problem
A melancholic reality, the act of life is inherently destructive, not really a problem in a technical sense.
"I've tried literally nothing and there's nothing left to try"
It's not a reality, it's a choice.
Trying to reach what goal?
“Life inherently is a destructive action”
What i mean to say with that is not that life (or eating meat) is immoral, but that the result of simply living is destruction to nature and other life is a normal part of the cyclus.. Its way more then just animals, its also the plants, the air you consume, the ant that happens to end under the leg of your chair…
The only way any being could ever to get a “neutral footprint” is to never get born to begin with.
I am perfectly happy with my meat consumption, but i do wish it was normal in my society to be more personally involved in what the natural costs is of what we have on our plates.
Sure. If you assign a zero value to consciousness, what you say makes sense.
I, personally, value consciousness very highly. Call it bias, but I think consciousness is worth more than the sum of its parts.
You lost me on assuming i don’t value consciousness but i read that you agree that is moral to live even knowing that doing so is an act of destruction?
Then i think we are in agreement?
I disagree that eating plants is destruction in any way that requires a moral valuation. Destroying a consciousness is morally problematic. But shuffling around nonconscious energy and matter into various states isn't a moral issue.
I guess you can call eating plants "destroying" if you like. Just like I can say I murdered iron ore to forge it into a hammer. But both of those are just dramatic phrasing. if consciousness isn't involved then morality isn't either.
Its not just eating plants i am talking about but the grand total of destruction.
Every breath of air you take, every sip of water, every footprint in the dirt. It is impossible for any being, herbivorous or not to live with no ecological cost. Every fart is methane. Your housing takes space other life could claim. Your body blocks light to reach the moss spores behind you and your lungs convert oxygen to co2 as we speak.
My philosophy is to personally measure the cost where i am aware, lower it where i can but accept that there will always be a cost. Enjoy life regardless so that costs is not wasted.
Were speaking on completely spiritual different levels it seems. I am not religious but to me system of nature itself is a bigger consciousness with other life (like us) just sub parts of it, harming another being equals harming myself. Not wrong on itself but an important part of what makes life what it is.
The keyword is balance and awareness. Life requires destruction to persist and continue but to much destruction and it seizes to be also.
You are part of that ecology and that's ok.
You're doing your job. You breathe the air. That creates co2 for the plants to eat.
But let's cut to the heart of it. What is the value of the ecology If not it's ability to support consciousness? Do you think the universe, in all its chaos and meaningless motion, has some balance that has value?
I think the universe itself is the value that ecology and nature sustains.
But this subject is stretching what i can articulate in words without sounding like a religious nutjob. (Re reading post script, this was foreshadowing)
Consciousness is an emergent property of natural dynamics in the universe. ~~The universe is some sort of contrast complexity between nothing exists and everything exists. Similar to light/dark either both exist or neither does.~~
Without universe to act as the natural wealth of physical interactions there is no stage for consciousness to form.
Without universe where things we judge as “immoral” “bad” can occur normally there is no universe where things that we judge “moral” “good” can occure. This is a step to say morality in nature does not actually exist.
The system of nature is destructive, it is finite. Bleak as we pay perceive it is is part of its complexe beauty. For everything we use we work towards destroying ourself conceptually.
So many words to actually say that isolated from context “acts of killing and eating of animals/others cannot be considered “wrong” trough any logical reasoning.
It is not the killing part that is “bad” to reference the earlier question.
But what we can conclude trough logical reasoning is that if we want to appreciate this insane universe we can instead of wailing in the (optimistic) nihilism of possibilities and inability to eliminate the inherent self destruction of what your kind emerged from. You can prolong its existence, strech it on more time by simply being mindful not to waste, to respect the values of nature around you and to use them to mindfully, optimally enriching the experience of the life that is now as it lives.
It is just as accurate to say the system of nature is creative and infinite. With things constantly evolving into other things and eventually evolving into heat.
You wouldn't say that salt being dissolved in water has destroyed the salt. It simply created saltwater. Your choice about what is destruction and what is creation is arbitrary.
The universe will exist infinitely. Nothing you do changes or destroys that. When you talk about minimizing impact, you're talking about the impact to the environment that's sustains consciousness. If that were to be destroyed, that would be detrimental. You're trying to preserve that.
But even if we nuked the whole planet a hundred times over, the universe is fine. It's just converted some matter to a different form.
My point is, your entire framework is actually working against the universe. The universe is a constant state of change trending towards heat. You're doing your best to minimize that trend towards heat. To keep things from changing. To minimize your impact. That is completely against how the universe functions. But it is completely in favor of keeping consciousness around.
So what happened to trying to make it as quick and painless is an essential part of hunting.?
Apparently the kind of hammer used would be a quick…
It feels to me like there are cleaner, more efficient way to kill for food but i guess its plausible that this really was the best way?
I'm about to go down this journey myself. I've decided that if I can't do it then I have to stop eating meet. I won't let someone else do my dirty work.
I'm going to stick to animals that will kill / hunt other animals under normal conditions even if not directly apart of their diet.
So like turkey, fish, chicken, squirrels, rabbit
All on the table.
Idk how I feel about deer yet. I know they will eat small rodents and insects on purpose sometimes but from what I've read it's a lot less then the other animals I've mentioned and not normally under standard conditions.
Opportunistic predators still "hunt" for their own survival. Even if they were intelligent enough to consider the morality of that, their need would likely justify it. The idea of targeting them specifically doesn't make sense if it's intended to be some sort of punishment.
Its not a punishment, it's the idea that they at some levels understand and have made the same sacrifice.
Maybe consider the balance of the ecosystem you live in. Sometimes overpopulation of deer could be really detrimental to other species. So while they're not directly killing other animals, they are indirectly doing so.
Squirrels and rabbits hunt other animals??
Rabbits no, they're typically herbivores unless starving. Some ground squirrels have been shown to hunt and eat voles, and I know that squirrels are essentially fluffy rats.
Here's an image of a squirrel eating a dead bird carcass.
They'll eat their own young and the young of competing animals, so it counts. Both will also eat insects as well which I feel counts
I agree with you because I know if I had to do it, I'd never eat meat again. I think about their life all the time, I just feel guilty when I'm eating them, so probably a little psychopathic.
Nah, psychopaths didn't feel guilty. You just lack conviction.
Yeah. Humans are naturally hunter-gatherers, so anyone who says killing animals is psychopathic is probably more likely to be a psychopath (in the true sense of the word) than someone who appreciates how it's unpleasant but also no worse than what happens in factory farms or in the wild.
They said enjoying killing animals is psychopathic. That doesn't even seem controversial.
I'm not fully convinced. People enjoy running ultramarathons and stuff like that, which is horrible on the body yet kind of relates to our history as persistence hunters. I don't think it's too far fetched to believe that people find hunting and killing animals enjoyable from the same primal instincts. I certainly don't, but I also don't think it's psychopathic.
Almost anything is better than what happens in factory farms.
Yeah, I'm not sure whether to place wild animals wounding prey and using them to teach their young to hunt as worse it better, but if you are going to eat meat then I don't think there's many more ethical ways to do it than have them live a good life up until seconds before they die, then make killing them as fast as possible.
In a lot of places hunting is good for the environment too, not only because the fees from licences generally goes to wildlife management, but also humans have killed a bunch of their predators and so there'd be even more damage to the ecosystem if you don't introduce another predator to manage numbers (although it would be preferable to not let it get to that stage at all, it's too late in a lot of Europe and I believe other places too)
Hopefully by "a good life" you're referring to wild animals, not power farmed ones?
Because I agree with hunting as deer management is necessary, but factory farming is bullshit and the regulations are just garbage. Animals live in cages where they don't have the room to turn around, much less moving about and socialising. And you know cows don't produce milk unless they've calfed recently, so they just keep inseminating them as fast as possible after a pregnancy.
When my grandma was small and tended cows on a rural farm, the cows lived to like 20. Factory farmed cows just keel over on the factory about after five years.
So idk, if you'd consider being like a child chimney sweep in London 150 years ago to be a good life, then perhaps you can make an argument for factory farming?
I was referring to animals in the wild and on small farms, yes
Good. Just making sure.