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this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2023
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Exactly by design. It's a lot cheaper to make people quit than to lay them off and pay a severance package.
The problem is you lose good employees this way, instead of the employees you should actually be letting go of.
And then those good employees go work for your competition. Oopsie!
And Amazon's competition is...
Target. Best Buy. Grocery store chains. Places like Homegoods and Overstock.com.
Depending on the jobs, also Google, Microsoft, etc...
Any company that does any kind of logistics. You also don’t have to work for a direct competitor. If Amazon is on your resume you’ll have options.
The best employees are getting messages from recruiters all the time with lucrative offers to go elsewhere. It’s foolish to give them a reason to even consider those offers.
In Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg we have a direct competitor called bol.com
These appear to be predominantly corporate jobs. Those folks can go to either a tech company or a logistics company depending on their role. Their skillsets transfer just fine to other companies, competitors or not.
Google, Microsoft, IBM, and Alibaba compete in the cloud hosting market. eBay, Alibaba, Walmart, (insert any other online retailer) compete in the retail sales markets. Netflix, Hulu, Sling, Google, HBO Max all compete in the streaming TV market.
In addition to all of the above, there are numerous other industries that would be glad to hire competent IT staff who leave Amazon.
The one that makes the decision sees all workers as replaceable cogs and the managers that know which people are the good ones are not consulted. We call that the "foie gras" style of management.
Most of Amazon functions this way at this point. It didn’t used to be so bad, but things really went to shit with some belt tightening in 2017/2018 where management wasn’t thoughtful. It was more about networking than a meritocracy.
Couldn’t you decline to move and then force the company to fire and/or lay you off?
That probably depends on their contract and location. Not coming to the office after being told to might result in being fired with cause which may result in loss of severance pay. It might also constitute abandonment of the position which can be seen as "quitting" in some place.
This is the position I'm in. My leadership (multiple levels up) gave us approvals to move away from Seattle (but not too far) after Jassy unequivocally stated that WFH wasn't going away and it was up to teams to decide how they wanted to do it.
So, I bought my first house for my family 90 min away without traffic. Then he swings in with his fragile little ego a year later and tells us "oh, you riff better in office" and forces everyone to come back. Zero data. Nothing of quantifiable value. Lies to our faces. This whole thing is about real estate. 100%, no doubt about it.
I have been VERY openly vocal since then that I will NOT be back in the office more than once a week and will leave if they force it on me.
It's probably the wrong move politically, but I'm pissed off and if I can set an example for the kids who have since joined as newbies, things will be better for them.
But I now have zero issues telling managers 3-4 levels up in public meetings that I won't be in the office specifically because I don't want to be. Fuck the high horse he rode in on.
You (Amazon leadership) wanna demand we use data to prove every single decision we make and completely dominate the company culture with that? Fine. I'll keep using that argument against it. If I'm fired, I will have zero trouble finding a new gig. In the meantime, I will sit at my home office and ignore every single email I get complaining I don't badge into the office 3 times a week and have a 2.5 hour drive each way on those days.
Yes, I moved with the expectation that I'd be doing that once a week permanently. I'm fine with that. So are ALL my managers. Jassy can bite me. I'm really angry if you can't tell.
Got to love that Earn Trust and Day 1 culture. Also it’s amazing how high up some of the decisions are being made without consulting even VPs. The RTO, layoffs, the recent Return to Team, and the shaming email were all done without some VPs knowledge. That seems like a good way to erode trust throughout the entire structure.
Yeah, we found out about RTO via the news before our VP hears anything about it. Erode Trust is the next LP and will likely replace "Strike to be earth's best employer"
I love seeing people stand up to these mandates. I flat out ask the purpose for my physical presence, and unless it's an objectively good reason AND everyone else required will be present, I'm staying away. I've too often arrived at an office to sit on a Teams call.
I'm not contributing to traffic pollution and seeing my kids less to satisfy someone's whim or real estate investment. As far as I'm concerned, that ship has sailed. Virtual whiteboards exist. Welcome to the future.
That is EXACTLY what happens with me. Every single time my calls involve people in different places. Why would I bother if I'm just going to be talking to people who are at their home or halfway across the world?
Exactly this. Also, the market has cooled off now with more people looking for employment, so if they need to rehire, it will be cheaper.