this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2025
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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
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Aren't these shipped without any proprietary firmware, which you can try and if it works for you it works and use it but for many people these just won't work and using stuff like arch/Debian/fedora/opensuse to name a few will work much better. Like they are great distros if they work for you use them but they are not for everyone.
This. No property firmware blobs, nothing that is considered non free software.
So, no Nvidia graphics for gaming, no wifi and bt, a bunch of software not available.
I thought Debian didn't include firmware and other binaries by default. I remember having a separate firmware CD for installs on weird RAID controllers. Did that change?
It didn't until 2022 or so, it's had a toggle that can be turned on or off for non-free repo's for as long as I can remember but, starting around 2022 they changed the default to allow for non-free (and also apparently made it a pain in the butt for the live install to disable it because its a boot param now instead of a toggle)
They changed that with Debian 12 I think
No. You don’t get it.
You have to switch to hardware that keeps its firmware safely hidden inside so we can call it “hardware”. If you let the firmware be updated, now it is “software” and it has to be free. But you can run in whatever “hardware” you want and be totally free.
I don't get what?
There is a reason for the naming hardware, firmware, software.
HARD, FIRM, SOFT.
No, hardware das not bekomme Software just because it has firmware.
And yes it would love to see free firmware.
Look at CPU microcode. It is used to fix security issues in hardware. Without it you are vulnerable. Not using the property firmware blob to update the microcode is a very very bad idea. Does that make the CPU software...
Sorry buddy. It looks like I somehow replied to the wrong comment.
You misunderstood me (no surprise given the first sentence).
No, the CPU does not become "software" because it has firmware. Which is why it is crazy to disqualify Linux distros as "free" when they include firmware blobs.
Based on your comment here, I would say we completely agree.
[EDIT: Actually, I see my mistake now. I was replying to you. I just forgot to put the /s at the end of my first line. I said "You don't get it" because "you do get it".]
Sorry, I am very sensible regarding this topic. I may have overreacted too.
I would suggest we keep those comments here for the overall content and shake hands :)
Very happy to shake hands. Have an excellent week.
Never upgrading your CPU firmware is a bad idea. Most of the people saying that “works for them” have no idea what they are talking about. Yea, your system runs. Congratulations.
And they are still running on proprietary firmware. Just outdated firmware that they refuse to update.
It is just such utter nonsense. It makes my brain hurt.