this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
17 points (77.4% liked)
Inventing Reality
468 readers
283 users here now
When the media decides who you are rooting for.
founded 9 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Marx believed in using existing democratic processes to implement socialism.
I don't believe he did in the way you are suggesting but I don't have the energy to go dig through books rn. Regardless, we have learned through trial and error that this is not the case. Plenty of theory has been published on this including Rosa Luxembourg's Reform or Revolution and Lenin's What Is To Be Done. Marxism is a growing an evolving social analysis that learns from its mistakes. We shouldn't take Marx's words as if they are dogma, he was limited by the information he was exposed to as is everyone else. If reform worked it would have by now and we don't have the time to keep trying.
You can't reform the Democratic party. AOC is moving right ever year. Give enough time she will be what she was put there to destroy. I can already see her cashing in and take corporate money.
Both Marx and Engels were active participants in electoral politics in Germany. They collaborated with other left wing political parties when strategically advantageous, and opposed those same "allies" when their objectives diverged.
There was never a total commitment towards violent revolution, as the only means of implementing socialism. Time and time again, the emphasis was on using ALL available methods at their disposal to advance their cause. It should be pretty obvious to any civilized individual, that violence should be reserved as a last resort...not as the preferred method of implementing change. It is far more effective to unify the working class willingly, than to force an entire population to accept your will at gunpoint.
And since the ultimate goal of any socialist system is democracy...why wouldn't that also be the preferred method for implementing it?
I encourage you to read what I have linked. Bourgeois politics can be useful for achieving specific concessions for the working class but the bourgeoisie will not willingly let go of their wealth and power because the workers all agree it's for the best. They have shown time and time again that they'd rather beat us into submission than do so. Look at how they treat workers in the periphery. If you think they won't treat you the same when times get tough you are fooling yourself. The most we can win from the systems they set up to manage their affairs is welfare capitalism also known as social democracy. The first time this was achieved was only after the bolshevik revolution once the bourgeois in those border states with the USSR recognized that their workers might attempt to take power. It was a method of appeasement but since the collapse of the USSR this welfare for the workers has been steadily eroded under the need to increase profits and without the threat of proletarian revolution. It is for this reason I will not say bourgeois politics is never useful but I will always say that it can never result in a worker's state. The main issue with your proposition is that achieving socialism through democratic means (which is to say through bourgeois parliamentary politics) requires the owning class to accept the results and give up all their wealth and power without a fight.
The point of that article isn't that Marx believed in reformism over revolution, but that democracy can only truly exist in socialism. The latter half is just slander against Marxism-Leninism, by pretending the Marxist-Leninist point is that the dictatorship of the proletariat isn't democratic. In reality, the DotP is counterposed to bourgeois democracy, and the DotP is proletarian democracy. Extensive studies into the soviet form of democracy exist, such as Pat Sloan's Soviet Democracy, which was a well-developed.
Here's revolutionary Statesian reporter, Anna Louise Strong, reporting on democratic processes she observed:
The real point made by Marxist-Leninists is that the working classes must have full control of the state, and run it democratically. This is a working class dictatorship over capitalists, landlords, fascists, monarchists, and so forth, who are deprived of political power. The DSA smear-piece is utterly unconvincing because its chief point is "socialism has always sucked, but we will do it better," which is horrible rhetoric, not to mention the lies and misanalysis. This is why Marxist-Leninists defend the real achievements of real socialism, not just throwing real socialism under the bus, smearing its legacy, and trying to tell westerners that they are the only ones that can make "true" socialism.
This process of reformist organizations trying to coopt Marx was well-established pre-Lenin, and persists to this day. Lenin's famous introduction to The State and Revolution is ever-applicable today:
If you want to learn about Marxism-Leninism, then I suggest reading this intro reading list I made.
Marx isn't the Jesus of Marxism who's words are gospel, it is an evolving science of political theory with lessons learned.
They're also confusing the point of the article, which is to say socialism is democratic, not that socialism can be achieved via electoralism. There's still the necessity of revolution.
The article is also a hit piece on the USSR without really sourcing anything, it's fearmongering about communism.