this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2025
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[–] bobo@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That would be curious considering that his account of democracy is not an account of 'mob rule', but of literal anarchy - ie that all people do as they wish to.

Are you talking about the transition from democracy to tyranny in the Republic, or something else? I don't know of any other accounts that could be considered in any way anarchistic.

If that's the case, it's not that everyone does whatever they want, but they think they can be whatever they want.

One day you're a labourer highschool dropout, the next a doctor proving vaccinees cause autism, the next you're a mathematician proving the earth is flat, and so on. It's a bit exaggerated, but it makes sense something like that could lead into tyranny. Remember Pisistratus and the other tyrants of Athens?

If he didn't trust anyone with power, he should come off in support of his account of 'democracy', but instead he regards it as one of the worst states of a polity, below only tyranny.

Keep the historical facts in mind.

During Plato's life Athens went through different systems, and ended up on a direct democracy that's paying free men to attend the assembly. The same free men who voted for Socrates to kill himself, and then a year later built a statue to honour him. Literally soldiers without a war, and the lowest of the free class, voting on things they know nothing about for a living.

He didn't shit on democracy for no reason, it was a dream on its last legs during his life, and it died shortly after him.

[–] PugJesus@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Are you talking about the transition from democracy to tyranny in the Republic, or something else? I don’t know of any other accounts that could be considered in any way anarchistic.

Did you not read the Republic

The manner of life in such a State is that of democrats; there is freedom and plainness of speech, and every man does what is right in his own eyes, and has his own way of life. Hence arise the most various developments of character; the State is like a piece of embroidery of which the colours and figures are the manners of men, and there are many who, like women and children, prefer this variety to real beauty and excellence. The State is not one but many, like a bazaar at which you can buy anything. The great charm is, that you may do as you like; you may govern if you like, let it alone if you like; go to war and make peace if you feel disposed, and all quite irrespective of anybody else. When you condemn men to death they remain alive all the same; a gentleman is desired to go into exile, and he stalks about the streets like a hero; and nobody sees him or cares for him. Observe, too, how grandly Democracy sets her foot upon all our fine theories of education,—how little she cares for the training of her statesmen! The only qualification which she demands is the profession of patriotism. Such is democracy;—a pleasing, lawless, various sort of government, distributing equality to equals and unequals alike.

One day you’re a labourer highschool dropout, the next a doctor proving vaccinees cause autism, the next you’re a mathematician proving the earth is flat, and so on. It’s a bit exaggerated, but it makes sense something like that could lead into tyranny. Remember Pisistratus and the other tyrants of Athens?

Ah, yes, the poors trying to make their own decision on what to do with their own lives leads to tyranny.

You may not have read the Republic, but you certainly seem inclined towards Plato's way of oligarchic thinking.

During Plato’s life Athens went through different systems, and ended up on a direct democracy that’s paying free men to attend the assembly.

Yes, during Plato's life Athens lost a war and had a government installed by Sparta to rule over it, after which they overthrew it and restored their previous democracy.

The same free men who voted for Socrates to kill himself, and then a year later built a statue to honour him. Literally soldiers without a war, and the lowest of the free class, voting on things they know nothing about for a living.

"Literally soldiers"

... the Greek hoplite system was one of largely militia, not professionals.

"and the lowest of the free class"

Oh no

the filthy poors again

"voting on things they know nothing about for a living."

Good thing the Republic restricts voting on things they know nothing about for a living to only the oligarchic caste.

He didn’t shit on democracy for no reason, it was a dream on its last legs during his life, and it died shortly after him.

It 'died' because it was fucking conquered by the Macedonians.