Comradeship // Freechat

I don't want to come across as patsoc adjacent (and it will become hopefully become very clear why I am not patsoc adajecent if my comment history is not proof enough), this is more a critique (not criticism) of some the potential underlying sentiments (and therefore I would like to stress this is a generalised opinion not aimed at anyone individual person).

It is sometimes very challenging not to resolve to some sort of third worldism, if not accelerationism, when speaking to westerners even if they call themselves marxists. One has to keep telling themselves and relearning what it means to be dialectical materialist because honestly it feels like the West is not going to have any real revolutionary potential without the Global South forcing its hand. Rationally I know there needs to western home grown movements of scientific socialism, emotionally it often feels like this is idealism.

It very much feels, because of centuries of imperialism that Western cultures and western peoples, at large if not the majority, that the identity of what it means to be a Westerner is too much tied to that relationship of exploitation of the global south, and any remanants of older cultures that precdeded capitalism has been submsumed by this relationship.

Having said that, I feel, Haui is rightly trying to grapple the contradictions of how to grow mass movements amongst these reactionary masses and what concessions - that's right concessions- does a western vanguard of scientific socialists have to consider while doing its best to avoid tailism. I do not have an answer here.

In the global south, reactionary sentitments - both religious or otherwise - are managed understanding that imperialism is the most significant global contradiction and it is through this we build solidarity. Maybe we use that same tool in the west too but the we reach a contradiction: if we understand that the material always comes before the idea then what benefit could we offer within the short term to Westerners that outweighs the benefit of imperialism - a social system they are already benefiting from?

I have posited in the past potentially those who may gain from the fall of US imperialism but this still leaves space for reactionaries who want to supercede it with their own national chauvinism.

I think there's a language barrier - I am not getting the impression that they are antisemitic at this stage - I think they are responding to antisemitic accusations being levied due to being pro-palestinian.

I think the sentiment of understanding for example how Fanon's work should be understood within the context of french imperialism against algerians in marked contrast to germans have been pretty good but I have not yet seen a response (for which I too do not have an answer either) is how to build a western vaguard of scientific socialists in this reactionary mess and to lead a mass movement from that. If one is not at least considering what concessions need to be made without resorting to tailism then whatever movement that comes out will not be strong enough to hold against the inevitable reaction.

Haui is right to allude to that fascists have long employed repurposing socialist analysis against capital exploitation - for example war against Russia here - for chauvinist needs, and that this needs narrative needs to be repurposed back with vigour and precision.

I thought I'd add my measley 2 cents so that it does not feel like we are ganging up on Haui

(Edited to add: I wonder if the "western" masses that would have revolutionary potential will end up being up being majority immigrants from the Global South, and even then we need to not fall to tailism of gusanos and patriarchy. I wonder if the kernel of truth amongst fascists is that the end of their Western project is through immigrant labour emancipation)