After recent discussions and changes to the Code of Conduct, the Disabled community would like to give some clarification on the use of ableist language. There has been a lot of debate on what is and isn’t ableist, and we would like to clarify some key points and offer some considerations for users when communicating here and elsewhere online. This is not a guide to what to say or how to speak. We merely wish to educate and provide examples around some of the language-related issues that impact people with disabilities, with the hope that we can encourage mindfulness when interacting with your fellow users, who may or may not be disabled.
"Language is inherently political. Both as individuals and as larger social and cultural groups, it is self-evident that the language we use to express all sorts of ideas, opinions, and emotions, as well as to describe ourselves and others, is simultaneously reflective of existing attitudes and influential to developing attitudes.
The terms that are listed below are part of an expanding English-language glossary of ableist words and terms. I have chosen to include words or phrases that I know of or that are brought to my attention that meet two criteria: 1) Their literal or historical definition derives from a description of disability, either in general or pertaining to a specific category of disability, and 2) They have been historically and or currently used to marginalize, other, and oppress disabled people."
-from Ableist Words And Terms To Avoid
For those looking for examples of generally ableist terms/phrases, the article linked above is a semi-comprehensive list the Disabled community refers to, linked under #9 in our community sidebar. There, you’ll find a list of words that are ableist in origin, but not necessarily slurs or insults. If you're looking for alternatives, we'd suggest trying to be more precise in your language and clarify your meaning. One of the examples provided is "blind to / blinded by", which is by no means a slur, but can be ableist in context. You can, of course, say you were blinded by the light of the sun/ headlights/ a flashlight and not be ableist, because this is what happens when you look into bright light. However, if someone misses an obvious detail and you say "You’d have to be blind not to see it", it is ableist. Note that in the ableist context, you could also call that person "stupid" for missing a detail, when all you meant to say was "You missed this detail." Using the phrase "You’d have to be blind not to see it" normalizes the idea that blindness is a bad thing that should be avoided. Blind people should have agency over the connotation of the word blindness and not be influenced by our negative usage of it to think that their condition is inherently bad.
Ableist slurs and expressions are commonly used to convey frustration and outrage. If a person is thoughtlessly hurting you and is seemingly not paying attention to how you feel, you would be rightfully outraged. Some people would call that person a psychopath, or sociopath. As most of us are not medically trained professionals who can tell the difference between a cruel person (or merely a cruel act committed by a person) and an actual psychopath/ sociopath/ etc., the disabled community would argue that terms like these, which pathologize certain behaviors, are ableist outside of a medically diagnosed context. Calling someone who commits something evil a psychopath/ sociopath/ etc., or using a descriptive word like insane/ crazy, assigns an inherent evil to anyone suffering from such associated conditions. Using it in this way implies that all people with these disabilities are evil. If someone is treating you cruelly, call them out on this, as is your right, but be mindful of how you interact with others. Some people are cruel, and some things happen by accident and/or with no ill intent.
Similar to how you wouldn’t mock or bully a blind person for their blindness, you also shouldn’t do this to someone who has a hidden disability. ADHD, autism, diabetes, Crohn's disease, and a multitude of other physical and mental disabilities have an array of issues that are not always obvious to non-affected people. Some of us are sensitive to noise or bright lights, others are so restricted in their diet that they can’t eat vegan or vegetarian. The point of being less ableist both in deed as well as in word is to not judge someone for needing special accommodations, may that be offline or online. We as a community ask you to be mindful of each other’s boundaries and needs, our seen and unseen struggles.
It is on us to communicate, learn, and resolve conflicts amicably instead of using ableist insults or terms as a default. It takes effort, and no one is naturally good at this, but as human beings, we are able to learn, adapt and overcome our differences. The disabled community would appreciate if we made a collective effort to try and be less ableist towards each other, to make both the site but also our everyday lives more accommodating for everyone, whether we are ourselves disabled or not. If you find yourself using ableist language, please take a moment to examine how your perspective has been informed by ableism. We've all participated and been subject to ableist structures, and now more than ever it is essential for us to unlearn our conditioned acceptance of ableism.
If you are interested in learning more about ableism and the use of ableist language, we have a small, non-comprehensive list of reading materials you may want to check out. The last three links lead to external websites, the ones before to Anna’s Archive:
Constructing Ableism - Stephanie Jenkins
Mothers of children without disabilities’ conceptions of inclusive education: unveiling an exclusionary education system privileging normality and ableism - Sultan Kilinc
The Relationships Between COVID-19 Anxiety, Ageism, and Ableism - Amanda A. Arcieri
Counteracting Dysconscious Racism and Ableism Through Fieldwork: Applying DisCrit Classroom Ecology in Early Childhood Personnel Preparation - Christine L. Hancock; Chelsea W. Morgan; James Holly
Ableism in the medical profession - Neilson, Shane
Ableism (The Causes and Consequences of Disability Prejudice) || Contending with Ableism from Internalized Ableism to Collective Action - Narioâ Redmond, Michelle R.
Hostile, Benevolent, and Ambivalent Ableism: Contemporary Manifestations - Nario‐Redmond, Michelle R.; Kemerling, Alexia A.; Silverman, Arielle
The Ableism of Quality of Life Judgments in Disorders of Consciousness: Who Bears Epistemic Responsibility? - Reynolds, Joel Michael
Ableism (The Causes and Consequences of Disability Prejudice) || Justifying Ableism - Nario‐Redmond, Michelle R.
Cultural and Impairment‐Specific Stereotype - Michelle R. Nario-Redmond
Online Othering (Exploring Digital Violence and Discrimination on the Web) || Othering Political Women: Online Misogyny, Racism and Ableism Towards Women in Public Life - Lumsden, Karen; Harmer, Emily
#MeCripple: ableism, microaggressions, and counterspaces on Twitter in Spain - Eva Moral; Agustín Huete; Emiliano Díez
Ableism, racism, and the quality of life of Black, Indigenous, people of colour with intellectual and developmental disabilities - Carli Friedman
Structural Ableism — Essential Steps for Abolishing Disability Injustice - Rupa Sheth Valdez; Bonnielin K. Swenor
The Association for Health Care Journalists (AHCJ), Identity-first vs. person-first language is an important distinction - Tara Haelle
Ly Xīnzhèn Zhǎngsūn Brown (Lydia X. Z. Brown) Ableist words/terms list as mentioned above
Language Style Guide - National Center on Disability and Journalism Disability
does it apply to you? if not, kindly don't speak for those of us with impaired mobility who do not and have never understood "lame" as meaning anything other than uncool outside of the extremely dated biblical use.
I think people should really consider the etymological fallacy when it comes to this stuff. There are words which obviously have ableist undertones like stupid, the r-word, dumb, etc., but even these words have undergone a transformation over time through semantic bleaching to the point where the original meaning is considered archaic.
Words like "idiot," "moron," and "imbecile" used to be genuine medical terms and were once considered neutral (albeit during a problematic period in medical history for other reasons). They were transformed through pejoration into generic insults, and we now view this new meaning as ableist because these words are currently used to mock someone’s intelligence.
There was a time when the word "silly" meant someone was blessed or happy, and "villain" used to refer to a peasant or farmhand. What really matters is whether a word is being used in an ableist way today, either based on context or the word itself if it’s strong enough. I also don’t think "lame" qualifies unless someone is going out of their way to use it in an old-fashioned way because, as you said, it broadly just means something is uncool or boring.
I can’t really speak on the word ‘lame’ as I don’t know a lot about its origin, but I do want to say that the harm of ableist language is relevant for all of us and not only the people who these are intended to describe. It is good to listen to disabled people and take their consideration very seriously on this matter, because their experience and often personal research are very valuable. However we should also base our actions on content based arguments instead of authority or anecdotal arguments. Your personal understanding of a word does not contest the potential oppressive structures behind it which could be reinforced by continuous usage.
but I am the affected disabled people here. there are elder lgbt+ people who don't like "queer" because of how it was weaponized against them in their youth but the consensus is that queer has been reclaimed, people use it to describe themselves, people ask to be described by others as queer, and you can literally get a degree in queer studies.
i have time for someone who is directly affected by lame somehow, but not for able people patronizing and condescending to us what we should consider ableist or not. I have friends who say the n-word a lot and some who don't like it even from other black people and i'm not taking a side in that because it's definitely not my place.
If the word lame has actually been reclaimed by those affected then that’s fine. But I think that the comment you were replying to was specifically referring to the usage of the word lame to describe something that is boring or uninteresting or uncool. That usage of the word associates people with a walking impairment to being boring uninteresting or uncool and I can not think of any reason why that should not be considered ableist. But if you can give me one the I’d be happy to change my position.
I’m also not patronising anyone as I care a lot about the bigger picture of the dehumanisation of disabled people and eugenics and every example of ableist language plays into that.
i'm saying there's a third thing besides active prejudice and reclamation and that lame = uncool != people who can't walk. it's disassociated from us unless you're literally quoting about jesus.
policing lame because you think it invokes us is backsliding and you shouldn't do that. if i am lame in some way it's not because my knees are fucked.
Thanks for explaining again, I didn’t really get the argument before. It makes sense but since English is my second language I really don’t know the association most English speakers have with the word lame.
The translation for lame in my native language is still very commonly used and often to make fun of people so that’s why the association is still there for me.
I've never met a disabled person who claims "lame" is a reclaimed word and this one person claiming that is liberal idealism. One person speaking for themselves is not an authority on the subject and I've seen countless disabled people ask people not to use it
i'm not saying it's reclaimed. i'm saying it's disconnected and not associated with us. reclaiming is different, but there's another kind of meaning drift that can happen and i argue that is the case for lame, like how over a much much longer time period "bad" lost its misogynist or homophobic connotation.
I have actually never heard of that, can you elaborate a bit? I'm curious
from wikitionary:
Etymology 1 From Middle English bad, badde (“wicked, evil, depraved”), of uncertain origin. Perhaps a shortening of Old English bæddel (“hermaphrodite”) (for loss of -el compare Middle English muche from Old English myċel, and Middle English wenche from Old English wenċel), or at least related to it and/or to bǣ̆dan (“to defile”), compare Old High German pad (“hermaphrodite”).
Alternatively, perhaps a loan from Old Norse into Middle English, compare Norwegian bad (“effort, trouble, fear”, neuter noun), East Danish bad (“damage, destruction, fight”, neuter noun), from the Proto-Germanic noun *badą, whence also Proto-Germanic *badōną (“to frighten”), Old Saxon undarbadōn (“to frighten”), Norwegian Nynorsk bada (“to weigh down, press”); ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *bʰedʰ- (“to bend, press, push, oppress”)
slightly different from merriam-webster
Middle English badde, bad, of obscure originNote: The Middle English word apparently appears as a surname or element in surnames in the 13th century, but as an independent adjective not before the 14th century. The supposed connection with the marginally attested Old English words bæddel, bædling (vowel length uncertain) "hermaphrodite, homosexual" is possible but uncertain (direct descent of badde from bæddel through phonetic reduction is unlikely).
we of course can't be sure but some time over the ~8 centuries whatever the original meaning fell out of use and the modern one is all we have left. 100ish years obviously isn't (up to) 800, but if there was a perfect analogy there would just be the same disagreement.
Maybe nimrod is more comparable? modern use comes pretty directly from bugs bunny cartoons but nimrod was a biblical hunter and when he calls elmer fudd that it's like how we sarcastically use "ok, einstein" when someone presents a bad idea.
That's an interesting bit of linguistic history, thank you for sharing that!
I'll be completely honest, I had to google how nimrod could possibly be a slur because I only know it as the biblical name, but I think you could compare these two in a sense. It seems like nimrod gained it's obscure derogatory meaning over time, while bad seems to have lost it (over a much longer period).
yeah sorry i don't mean to say nimrod is a slur, it's just gotten a new derogatory meaning relatively recently and that matches the timeline of changes in lame better, although in a mostly opposite direction.
Yes it does and lame literally means disabled you clown.
Why don't you just call uncool things crippled? That's really disabled of you. Do you see how maimed you sound?
These are all synonyms for lame. Just because you decided you are okay with ablelist language doesn't mean it isn't ableist. You sound like the many disabled people who go on Kill Tony and use the r-slur to prove how cool you are.
It's also funny to see how many people removed their upvote from my original comment because of your post, essentially cosigning your ableism because you are disabled and spoke up in favor of an ableist word.
we have very different experiences then. I have literally never heard anyone called lame on that basis, and it's been over 20 years since i heard a person called "a cripple" rather than inanimate objects or systems.
substituting words as you have doesn't mean much when nobody uses those synonyms that way.
That isnt the point and is not how language works. Lame is on the list linked in the fucking OP. This isn't a thread about slurs actively used to denigrate people, it's about ableist language and how it has become normalized as not slurs but every day language, just as you are displaying here and further normalizing which is proven by the people removing their up votes from my original comment because of you.
The idea that as a disabled person you can't be contributing to this issues is exactly the same argument zionists use with anti semitism
i disagree with the maximalist position on ableism that says a word is forever tainted if it has ever in the past been such.
my contention is that the determining factor should be common usage and i think any effort to reassociate lame with not being able to walk is not liberatory. It is not used on us (where i live and have lived, anyway, and in the dominant english culture) and the vernacular meaning has no connection to mobility. This is unlike all the mental ability words where the invocation is directly to mental faculties or "sanity".
you can make your own post about it with your own list of words you personally think are bad but this whole post is about how pervasive ableism is in language and how normalized it is. You can go on a crusade about your personal preferences about when ableism is okay for you personally but able bodied people are only going to use your opening of the door to find some way to justify whatever they want and there will be plenty of disabled people like you signing off on each and every word you think is bad and making it okay to themselves.
To me, lame being "uncool" is probably extension from something being "crippled" to "slow" and "slow people" being "uncool" so you are really doubling down on something that doesn't do you any favors
language that is ableist is prejudicial, others us, or contributes to our marginalization. you'd have to do a hell of a lot more work to show me that in the present day or last few decades that lame meaning uncool has any impact on us or our social condition.
you see an antiquated and retired usage and think it's normalized ableism, i think it's not ableist at all. I think highlighting a usage and meaning that was on the way out when my grandparents were in diapers does more to harm us than every time something is said to be lame.
i doubt there is any more productive discussion to be had here, but i'm happy to be surprised.
You can continue to double down, triple down, quadruple down, but unless you're going to go through all the texts in the OP and challenge it all you are really just showing your whole ass.
why should i challenge all of it and instead of one of the ones that ostensibly applies to me?
I previously added context for "bonkers" a little bit in another thread, and double-checking the can sticks out to me there, meaning it doesn't always.
a couple down from that is "burn victim"
emphasis mine. the list is maximalist, and admits there isn't always consensus. I've stated elsewhere i think that's a fine attitude for formal coms.
i do not understand why you are so eager to roll around in the mud when the mud is not being thrown at us.
This post was literally how I discovered that "lame" has ableist origins. Had it not been, I would have continued using the word casually, never understanding how it may impact people. It is not obvious that it means anything other than "boring"
What is it with Hexbears and expecting everyone to be completely educated on every topic and responding with hostility?
Isn't assuming good faith of long time users a rule now? This user is literally disabled, treating this situation as if they're handing out the nword pass to honkies is definitely not assuming good faith.
For many of us, English isn't even our first language. Going off on someone like this feels like rules lawyering non-white and ESL people out of leftist spaces because they don't know the origin of some word in common parlance. I assume this was not your intent.
fwiw I also have multiple disabilities and will not use the word going forward.
The usage of clown was because they challenged my level of disability to further normalize their use of ableism. I did not initiate the hostility, they insulted me off the bat by trying to challenge me in an attempt to defend ableist language, which the continue to do in the ensuing exchange. It is absolutely clown behavior.
This is no different than when Jewish users were using liberal zionist logic to police Muslims about wanting the israel cool emoji
I made a comment pointing out an ableist word I see used here a lot which is on the list in the OP, I didn't even look at the list when I said that because I already knew it was ableist. That user responded policing my pointing that out by assuming I am not disabled enough to point something out. Then they continued to double down on it.
Agree entirely, not disputing any of that paragraph besides maybe their intent. Either way it's definitely infuriating.
Very different. The context of the holocaust and its relationship to Judaism is universally understood here. I think your comparison is uncharitable.
(I wrote a long post detailing my thoughts, but figured it isn't a hill worth dying on)
My greater point is that language is dynamic, and maybe other people have different understandings of context surrounding it. Educating people of your perspective will accomplish more than scolding other disabled people for expressing theirs.
If they just expressed their opinion I would have been more interested in sharing mine in kind but doing this hyper online policing of others is fucking annoying, especially when trying to defend ableist language, and a word that specifically and literally describes a physical impairment.
There was a thread a few months ago that used the word autist and as a person who is not diagnosed with autism I asked if that word was okay to use because I only heard it used insultingly by people who are not autistic. Many autistic people said they use it, many said they don't. It's fine to have differeng opinions about language but to have someone arguing that a word that literally and definitively describes a disability is not ableist is fucking absurd.
Irt to the Judaism thing, my point is that it is an idealist fallacy that someone being from the group in question allows them to misuse their identity to defend abuses towards that identity. Someone being disabled isn't immune from perpetuating ableism, someone being Jewish isn't immune from perpetuating anti semitism, etc
Yeah, I've noticed this site feeling more contentious in the time since I first joined. I think part of the everyone constantly assuming the worst in each other stems partly from us being more widely federated and getting used to dunking on bad faith libs then going to being more closed off, and applying that same level of antagonism to their comrades on this site. Having your status as a disabled person called into question seems like a particularly hurtful consequence of that phenomena, partially because we definitely would see .world libs coming in here to speak on our behalf.
Idk "autist" feels very much like a slur to me. I'm surprised that autistic people defend its use at all. Like yeah, we all have our thoughts on what we find offensive, but there is some stuff that is pretty clearly used as a bludgeon against marginalized groups for their innate characteristics.
Pickmes of all kinds exist and do a great service for the oppressor class. I just wish that we would assume that less of well established users of this site. Most people here are solid people who may be quite clumsy with their rhetoric or wording or analysis of intentions, so I try to give the benefit of the doubt.
Just as a quick anecdotal aside, "autist" is one of those "on the fence" type of words when it comes to ableism. To some, it's absolutely fine and correct, to others it feels like an insult or is a slur. To be safe, go with autistic first, but I've heard plenty of people refer to themselves as "autists" already. I don't think many of those I've spoken to see it as defending the term. Heh, one of them actually told me they feel like it's a term that people used as an insult and they refuse to acknowledge that usage. It's personal, like you said, we all have our thoughts on what we find offensive. I guess at least one of the people I talked to wanted to reclaim the term for themselves.
This was the only way I could see autistic people being cool with it, since in the situations I have encountered it, it was used as a slur.
I have literally never seen the word used as anything but a way to denigrate others for their likeness to autistic people...and I hang out with a ton of autistic people. The only autistic person I know who uses this word, uses it in a self-hating derogatory sense and is pretty reactionary.
Not sure the actual origins of the word, but it has massive channer vibes, and any time I have heard it used by people, it has been from reactionaries. Same type of people who use "removed" unironically.
If some autistic people decide they're okay with that, whatever, that's for them to decide. But this thread started around the same question for the word "lame"...which I see soooo much more usage in a non derogatory sense than "autist". If autistic people want to reclaim this word, more power to them, but if I were a mod, I would absolutely ban neurotypicals who use this word or anyone using it in a derogatory way.
If it is used as an insult or slur, it will be removed, but that is for the community members who are autistic to decide.
I am also thinking that there may be different perceptions of the word autist depending on the country and region you're in. Ultimately, it is up to those affected to decided whether they want to reclaim it or not, but I do fully agree with you that it can be and is used as a slur very frequently.