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Is there a title (Mr/Ms/Mrs) that is gender neutral?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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Seconding the honorific "Mx". From what I've seen, it's decently well-adopted in the non-binary community. I've not seen it much used outside of that community--it seems to be used mostly when someone 'needs' an honorific but doesn't fit into the 1950s list. I've heard it pronounced "Mix" and "Mux". I tend to go with "Mix".
IRL, I've used "Hey, you" and "Yo!" when hollering at folks I don't know (example, "Yo! You dropped something!")
Sidenote: As a nonbinary person, I prefer not being given an honorific over being given the wrong one.
Minirant not directed at OP: And omg, if you need to go with a feminine honorific and you don't know whether the person is married, go with Ms, not Mrs. or Miss. The connotations of the wrong one are just creepy.
Not married and called Mrs="Hey, you're too old to be unmarried. Please feel judged about your relationship status"
Married and called Miss="Hey, you're too young to be married. Please feel like I don't respect you as an adult."
In all cases Ms="I don't know and/or care about your marital status and I'm trying to be polite"
Do you have any suggestions on sir/ma'am? I'm from the south, and genuinely don't know how to stop saying sir/ma'am. I always try to go with whatever the person is presenting, and I have tried not to say it at all. But that southernism is deeply ingrained. Like at a drive through or something, where you only have a voice to go off of it's especially bad. I do try to avoid it, but I wish there were a gender neutral version, because language just feels rude without it to someone who grew up with that instilled in them. All adult people must be addressed as ma'am or sir, regardless of age in any kind of setting that isn't close friends. If I forego it, I feel rude as fuck, and most of the time whoever you're talking to also acts offended. But the last thing I want to do is misgender someone, especially with words like sir/ma'am, that are such... Strict terms. Halp?
I'm wicked sorry, I don't have a good answer. You could try Mx and see how it feels. I've dropped sir/ma'am for folks that I know, or that appear my age or younger. I still use it for older folks I don't know out in the wild.
I, personally, never take offense at being misgendered in a Southern accent if I'm called "ma'am". I grew up in the South and to me it just feels like someone's trying their best to be polite and I take it as intended. Sometimes I also just misparse it as "man", which feels a bit informal, but whatevs. Miss still feels creepy, but I get that less now that I've hit 30.
If you're working at a drive through where there's a customer/service worker dynamic, I'd 1. go with ma'am or sir 2. accept it if someone corrects you, and 3. recognize you're more likely to be yelled at by someone for using a 'new-fangled honorific' than for misgendering someone.
Edit: Oh! I have replaced "Thank you sir/ma'am" with "Thank you, kindly" and that seems to work for me.
I like thank you kindly! Haha
And no, I don't work at a drive through, I just use them occasionally. Lol. And yeah, miss has always felt weird to me. I know in other parts of the country ma'am has an age connotation, so maybe miss is more appropriate there? But to me, it always felt sort of... Disparaging. Like you're specifically saying "you there, child-like-female-being!" Lol. Just doesn't sit right.
And I'd so much rather be yelled at for using new fangled honorifics. Haha. If I accidentally misgender someone, I know I've potentially ruined a day, or at the very least added to a certain level of frustration. If I get yelled at for some new fangled honorific then what I've done is outted a jerk, and pissed them off, and pissing off jerks makes me happy. Haha.
'Boss' is a pretty good one for someone you're trying to show respect to. 'Buddy' is good if you're on an even field.
Just use dude. I use that for ladies and gentlemen.
Except in the office. I call all my male workers ladies.
One could argue that it still caters to a binary designation.
In the Philippines, we use mamsir (combination of ma'am and sir)
Something tells me that wouldn't fly here. I kind of like it, but it might be get me punched. Lol.
I'm a fellow southerner with the same training. I use "yes, please" or "no, thank you" for the "yes sirs/ma'ams" and even the older generations don't notice.
I like "Hello GentlePerson!" It's oddly formal, so no one can say you aren't being polite, and it's gender neutral.
Depending on the context, I could see myself actually using this. Lol.
I think we should standardize to the “mux” pronunciation.
In electrical and computer engineering, a mux is a [multiplexer](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexer#:~:text=In%20electronics%2C%20a%20multiplexer%20(or,inputs%20known%20as%20select%20lines.). It’s a chip that takes several potential inputs and switches between them to make a single output. This is analogous to deciding between multiple possible honorifics, in my mind.
It is a stealth pun, which is one of my favorite types of puns.
Let's also use "demux" for formal plural then.
I understand what you mean here, except on the difference between Ms and Miss, do you mean this more in terms of writing than speaking? I ask only because I don't know that I've ever been able to hear a particular difference between Ms and Miss when spoken, but that may be more related to my hearing or something that I've not realized.
Edit:
Reading a little further, I see that it comes across as sorta creepy? I'd always parsed it as a more informal address compared to the more formal ma'am for femme folks, so this is interesting, to say the least! I suppose it reads sorta like someone calling an adult man, "young man" or "boy" despite their age, since I don't think there's something similar to miss for masculine folks.
That would come across creepy, unless from older folks and heavily dependent on context.
“Ms.” Is pronounced “mizzz” kinda like you’re a bee, “Miss” is pronounced “missss” like a snake.
I've honestly heard Ms. pronounced both ways (and both have been accepted in my experience), so that probably explains the confusion 😅 Thanks though!
I grew up with Mrs and Ms pronounced nearly the same, so I get the pronunciation confusion.
Also, calling a woman either Mrs or Miss defines her by her marital status. Since we are more than that, Ms is more appropriate (assuming that an honorific must be used at all).
those are good points, thank you!