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That's what they want. The fascists want us to give them a reason to escalate, because escalation will ensure that people stay away from the polls. We need to be organized, we need to be unified and we need to form a real resistance, but we also need to be smart, and that means NOT giving the fascists exactly what they're hoping for.
Signs don't threaten them, that's true, and that's exactly the point. They want us to threaten them, because then they can escalate. We need to be smart. That doesn't mean we need to be ineffectual or passive, it means we need to be very careful about how we proceed.
You are falling for political talking points by weak politicians that do not want to stand up for the people they represent that are being killed and kidnapped. I need you to understand something important. Fascist DO NOT need an EXCUSE to escalate. How do you think we got to SS troops going door to door asking for papers? Was it because of all the escalating excuses we gave them?
Please, we need people like you to not fall for Democrat politicians that are just trying to save themselves.
You also offered no alternative. Your advice to be "careful" is not advice. If you actually had a proposal I'd be interested in discussing that. But you are essentially arguing for doing nothing as the fascist continue to escalate in the face of nothing being done.
No, that's not true. I am arguing that we must be smart about what we do. Nonviolence is not the same as doing nothing.
Do you have a line? Like, how many people need to be executed by the feds? Is violence never justified in response to federal violence? Or do you have a line?
How many? 10? 100? 1000? At what point do you suggest fighting back? And I am not even advocating for a vigilante violence. I'm literally talking about preparing an organized defense that is armed.
You can't wait until your chosen number of dead is reached. By then it's too late.
How is what I discussed not being "smart" about what we do? It's literally about preparing an organized state defense to the fascist literally executing and kidnapping people RIGHT NOW.
What's yours? If your line has been crossed, you go do something about it. Go ahead. I'm rooting for you.
Good job avoiding the question. My line was crossed already. I am. I'm the person out there with the sign today (something I doubt you are even doing, but literally just telling us to keep doing that, to keep getting tear gassed, keep getting shot with pepper bombs).
If you were even doing the thing you were advocating for. That is. "protesting peacefully" you wouldn't have the ignorant perspective you have. Stop advocating for something you clearly aren't even doing.
By the time your line gets crossed you'll be too scared to even go hold a sign.
You're right, I'm too scared. I'm clearly not cut out for this resistance stuff. But I'm sure you've got what it takes, so I'm pulling for you. Go get those fascists!
I guess you're just using sarcasm to deal with denial of what is happening.
I get it. The things I'm talking about needing to be done are likely not going to happen. I would say we are both coping with the reality in different ways.
I don't want to be upset with you for dealing with it another way. I guess I just think you're holding onto the idea of a world (or the USA) that no longer exists.
I think there is no way to a better future that isn't fought for against the current systems that exist. You, I am assuming, are trying to restore something (and if I'm being critical that "something" is a delusion of the past). It's why it's so difficult for you to state any concrete plan as I have. Your advice was "be careful" and then fell back on just belittling any talk of organized resistance as some form of adventurism.
It's why you have to pretend I'm talking about something I'm not talking about. You act like I'm talking about some vigilante form of resistance. And I never have been.
I wish you'd try to continue the conversation instead of just falling back on sarcastic responses that criticize a position I don't hold.
Not necessarily. I think we are in the early days of the unwinding of US hegemony. I really don't think anything is going to stop that, at this point, and I think that's a good thing for the world, and even the US, in the long run. But I think a weakening US is at least potentially a dangerous thing, in the near term. I hope leveler heads will prevail but I'm not sure there are enough of those around in this country right now. I definitely hope I'm wrong, though.
I think the US might even collapse. Not necessarily in the very near future, but at some point. And by collapse I mean the Federation dissolves and the Federal government ceases to exist. Some states might try to become independent nations, some might try to form a new federation or union. I'm not saying I think that's going to happen, or even that I think it's likely, but I think it's a possibility, albeit perhaps a remote one.
There are a lot of future possibilities for the US, some better than others, but I don't know which future will happen nor which future "should" happen, necessarily. I just don't know. But I assure you, I'm not under any delusion that we can return to some mythical, stable past where everything was sunshine and roses. No, the past ain't coming back, nor should it. But that's the extent of what I'm confident about. Beyond that the future is a dense fog of possibility, and I certainly don't have the clarity to see which we are headed for.
I haven't stated a concrete plan because I don't have one. I have a general idea of what I want the US to be, but I have no idea how to bring that about. But even my general idea is not static. I constantly go back and forth on what I even want for this country. Do I want the US to even continue existing? Should we "balkanize?" Should the Federation remain in place, but perhaps with a significantly "weakened" Federal government? Or, should the opposite happen, with more centralization and nationalisation? I just don't know. I suppose there are advantages and disadvantages to all.
I think a majority of Americans want the US to remain one nation, but I also think there's confusion about what the even means. A nation is more than a legal or civic arrangement. A nation is a group of people who share a common culture, language, traditions, beliefs, etc. I suppose we do share a lot of those things, but not necessarily all. And so when any American talks about America as a nation, I think they're talking about their own conception of it, their own experience of it, and our own conceptions and experiences of being "American" differ. I think that's part of what's happening right now: different Americans competing for the power to define what it means to be American, for all.
But, ultimately, it's not up to me, anyway. I don't have the power to determine America's future. I'm just along for the ride.
Have you not been paying any attention?
THEY FUCKING ESCALATE WITHOUT AN EXCUSE ALL THE TIME.
Where is this bullshit "oh guys let's not agitate them it might make it worse"
THERE'S NOT MUCH WORSE THAN LOSING FREE ELECTIONS
ESCALATE. FIGHT. FUCK THEM.
No. That's exactly what they want. They want us to give them a reason to escalate. If they escalate anyway, then they expose themselves as the violent fascists that they are. That's important. Public perception does matter.
"No. That's exactly what they want. They want us to give them a reason to escalate".
They already ARE escalating, and have been for months, without an excuse. They don't need an excuse.
"If they escalate anyway, they expose themselves as the violent fascists they are".
They already have. Now what? What happens when they expose themselves and everyone can see the violent fascists they are? The adults come back into the room and remove their privileges?
If you think this is the maximum extent of how far they could escalate things, you are delusional.
There's a reason why they wear masks, why they lie, manipulate and spread propaganda: because they can't yet act with total impunity. If they could they wouldn't bother with the masks or the secrecy, they'd just roll their tanks down every main street in the nation, capturing and/or killing anyone they felt like. They want that, but they can't possibly get away with that. Yet. There are too many citizens and social, cultural, and political institutions preventing them from the full, violent takeover that they want.
However, if they can convince enough Americans that the "violent, traitorous left" is a serious enough threat, that they need to be given the powers to really take forceful control, then maybe. That's why they want us to commit violent acts against them, so they can portray us as violent socialists hell bent on destroying America. THEY WANT US TO ACT OUT VIOLENTLY AGAINST THEM. They're hoping for it.
You know who knew this? Martin Luther King. He didn't advocate so strongly for nonviolent resistance just because he wanted to be a nice, peaceful guy. He did it because he knew the white supremacists desperately wanted to goat black civil rights activists into acting out violently, so that they could then go before a mostly ignorant, white populace and say, "See! See how violent these blacks can be?! We need to respond with force!"
I'm telling you, trying to fight violence with violence is a very poor strategy. Maybe it will eventually come to that. Maybe a full out, knock down, drag out fight is inevitable, but we're not there yet. Don't be so quick to go to war. Not when it can still be prevented.
They can't possibly get away with doing more? Why not? What will be the consequences if they escalate unprovoked? Whatever those consequences would be, they should be implemented NOW
I think you need to read a lot more civil rights leaders that aren't MLK. Do you think MLK existed in a vacuum? Do you think MLK and peaceful protest alone lead to change? If you do, you are believing a lie.
Look, go play soldier then. Go ahead. Go on, March to war. Good luck, I hope you win.
They've already exposed themselves. What are you waiting for? What is your line? When they come for you? Offer an alternative that isn't just "wait until things are REALLY REALLY BAD and then that will be our opportunity to point at that; and pointing at that fascist state will somehow defeat it."
As we learned from Superman (2025) and Zootopia 2, all that's required to stop the bad guys is reveal their evil to the public. Then they will magically lose their power and be held accountable. What's that? The crimes of Trump's regime have already been exposed repeatedly? But they haven't been arrested, removed from power, or even lost much reputation? Fuck, now what?
It's frustrating how many people actually think the world is like a superhero movie.
It also doesn't help that we teach history in the same form as well. Rarely much time spent on the unnamed masses that actually make things change. And if we do it's only because they protested peacefully a lot. Or were justified in fighting some "ultimate evil" that liberals will only agree exists decades after the fact.