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I hate to break the news to people but there was an article just the other day about "swing voters" in Arizona. It was a mix of Rs, Ds, and independents who voted Biden in 2020 and Trump in 2024. They asked their opinions on ICE, etc. etc. Pretty much all IIRC said that ICE is going too far, people are living in fear, etc.
The thing that stood out is the last sentence- NONE said ICE should be abolished/dismantled.
Reading in here you'd think the popular opinion is that it should be. I can tell you it's not true. Even some of my more liberal/left friends don't always think it should be abolished, not to mention anyone more center.
I personally think it should've been abolished yesterday and the entire DHS dismantled but I also realize that is not the popular opinion, or at least seen through polling etc. I hope all the people thinking it should are voting in primaries for candidates who argue it should. Or convincing their neighbors that it should and they also vote accordingly.
Ok but these people are too stupid to care about. Just jangle some keys after abolishing ice and they'll forget about it
These people are the normal, liberal, middle-class of America and have the greatest political capital, more than any other group, because they are the breadbasket of our nation's tax revenue and disposable-income shopping habits. Their comfort and desire to preserve that comfort is why ANY of this is happening. Yes they can be distracted by keys easily, but they're already held by capital because again... they are comfortable.
The second strongest form of political capital is armed groups of brainless nationalists who will fight and die for their nation's flag.
Where does progressive political capital sit on this scale? Somewhere below "unarmed protestors politely asking for civility."
We need to understand how power works if we ever want actual change in this country, and it's not hugboxes and performative inclusivity, it's flags and guns and money.
I understand that. My point is why pander to the nonsensical policy prescriptions of "normal" middle class America? They are illiterate. Just tell them they'll still have shopping malls and Netflix and we're abolishing ice.
Because that's not enough, they are a resource, if we don't tap that resource, the other side does... as they are doing now.
I'm saying it's not an "abstract group of people," I am talking about the currency that shapes nations, the force behind the declarations and policies and intentions.
That power comes from only a small number of sources, the top two are violence or money.
The right has both, and they are doing everything they can to secure them before others can, and there are a LOT of forces trying to get a piece of both those pies. We could wrest a section of it with careful political messaging and coordination and establishing local communities and electing leadership that actually wants better outcomes instead of better donations. But you don't do that without knowing exactly who you're trying to message and what your message needs to be.
None of this is as simple as "fuck them, we're doing our own thing" we're all in this together, even the people you don't like.
I didn't say fuck them. I said ignore whatever polling you think these people represent. These people's opinions do not matter, they will hold whatever political opinion you put on tv in front of them. They will follow anything.
As for your arguments about political power, I only somewhat agree. Political power springs from the barrel of a gun.
To disregard those is a mistake. That bloc’s opinion needs to change in order for them to help do something about it. They’re needed, because it’s a big bloc. It might include many of those who don’t care enough to vote.
whats funny is ice is a relatively new thing so I don't see why not abolish it.
The first reaction is because that sounds like just allowing unlimited immigrants. They can't consider it not existing.