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I'm not even sure I want to know
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2023
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my problem with this thread; u can't tell who is actually communist and authoritarian, and who is just authoritarian
Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist/"Left" Authoritarian Communism is just authoritarian nationalist state capitalism that uses classist rhetoric instead of (or as well as) racist rhetoric.
And before people call me a tankie: Anything authoritarian is trash-tier shit.
Lol a tankie would never admit that. No threat of you getting called a tankie.
No you got it.
Equating communists you disagree with with fascism is holocaust trivialization, according to mainstream Jewish scholars of the holocaust.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
The difference is whether you get sent to a concentration camp or a gulag.
Oh, I guess they are pretty similar...
Uh, depending on the concentration camp, not really.
I don't want to defend gulags but they didn't have poison shower rooms or child corpse disposal staff.
Working your slaves to death sometimes, sure, but you mostly came out the gulag alive.
Broken, but alive. Historians estimate that of about 20 million people sent to the gulags about 1.5 million died in them.
Which is a horrific example of compliance through terror but not quite the same thing as an extermination program.
Don't minimize the Holocaust on your way to agree with everyone else that tankies are delusional assholes.
Just for information the death count of gulags is largely unknown. Russia itself says its 1 million but pretty much all other sources say its too low to be even believable. There are credible sources for 1.5 to 8 million deaths (also non-credible sources that go much higher). Unfortunately unlike the nazies, soviets did not really have record keeping at all so all sources are estimates based to prisoner and guard writings. Another factor that makes estimates hard is the practice of when a prisoner was near death they would be shipped home, a lot of those never made it home but don't count as killed by a gulag.
There was also mass deportations from satellite states that weren't sent to gulags presumably but that's a different thing.
Right, and it's hard to decide how to account for someone crippled for life, or otherwise permanently altered, but the 1.5+ million is the best sourced claim we have.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/gulag#:~:text=gulag%20(plural%20gulags)
Ok buddy.
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Lul, ok buddy.
Just be aware that the term concentration camp was used long before the NSDAP created their destruction camps. smithsonian
Sure, but the commenter had a very specific set in mind and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
past definitions don't mean shit when their meaning changed
Neither did concentration camps:
"Interned persons may be held in prisons or in facilities known as internment camps (also known as concentration camps). The term concentration camp originates from the Spanish–Cuban Ten Years' War when Spanish forces detained Cuban civilians in camps in order to more easily combat guerrilla forces. Over the following decades the British during the Second Boer War and the Americans during the Philippine–American War also used concentration camps.
The term "concentration camp" and "internment camp" are used to refer to a variety of systems that greatly differ in their severity, mortality rate, and architecture; their defining characteristic is that inmates are held outside the rule of law. Extermination camps or death camps, whose primary purpose is killing, are also imprecisely referred to as "concentration camps"."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment
The singularity of the Holocaust lies in the extermination camps, where millions of people were murdered with industrial efficiency:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp
Saying that concentration camps exist(ed) in other countries is not Holocaust relativism.
Thus, "depending on the concentration camp."
And you know which ones he meant.
No, I don't know which ones "he" meant, because nobody mentioned Nazis, and apparently you still haven't understood the difference between concentration and death camps, and assuming everyone here is male is also kind of yuck you know.
Sure bro. You're making an honest argument in a comment chain that has used the phrase "authoritarian nationalist state capitalism."
Fuck all the way off, this isn't Facebook, people know what you're doing.
This comment chain doesn't have the words "authoritarian nationalist state capitalism." in it, and you don't know shit about anything, go back to facebook.
I'm also not your fucking "bro", asshole, get lost.
Oh, you're illiterate too. That tracks.
Mmh, yeah... Sucks to be you I guess...
Now fuck off.
Hey, broseph, maybe you and your sockpuppet should look at all the children comments from that top one.
Right wing auth isn't exactly better than left wing auth
Same crap in the end.
Equating communists you disagree with with fascism is holocaust trivialization, according to mainstream Jewish scholars of the holocaust.
https://jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory
Not every right wing extremist caused the holocaust, and besides, if you compare all right wing extremists with the nazis at their peak power, you could also consider yourself a stalinist for downplaying his actions by simplifying history as some people I disagree with
If you compare right wingers with little power to left wingers with little power you get mass shooters vs mutual aid enthusiasts.
If you compare right wingers with a lot of power to left wingers with a lot of power, the fascists have a spectacular kill count and the left wingers are less bad than the bourgeois democracy baseline.
They don't give a shit about worker enfranchisement - they're all right wing fascists, it's just that some of them are red-coded.