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this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
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I don't know anything about this case, but revenge is not a solution. Our penal system is totally fucked, and part of the issue is people have been told that revenge is justice. It isn't. We will all be paying for this woman to be locked up and she won't be able to contribute to society. If we tried to rehabilitate, that'd be one thing. We just try to punish though, and people like you act like a harsher punishment is good somehow. What good does it do?
Oh no, who could have ever predicted that actions might have consequences. She killed someone, completely unprovoked to boot. It’s not revenge to lock her ass up, it’s the consequence of her killing someone.
It's still revenge. I agree there should be some consequences, but should it be for life? I can use your exact argument to just keep increasing the sentence. At what point is it not acceptable? Should every mistake be a life sentence? The US already has the worst incarceration rate by far in the world. Why are people still ok with this shit? Why do they think this argument is acceptable? It doesn't work as a deterrent, so what's the point, besides making you feel good about getting revenge?
Guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Without personal emotion I do not believe it to be revenge and with a professional judge upholding judicial standards set by society I do not believe the consequence bestowed on this woman displays any signs of being revenge. That’s not so say I agree that is true for every punishment but it most certainly aligns in this case, I’m sure that line will look different for different folks. She purposefully acted in a violent manner that directly killed somebody. No unpredictable tools, mechanisms, devices, or external factors were at play. Her hands and her mind alone violently shoved and killed this woman. Eight years seems plenty appropriate to me. Depending on circumstances, some within her control, should could see a meaningful reduction to that sentence. Theirs plenty of incarceration issues to take issue with that display a failed system, this isn’t one of them in my assessment.
My biggest issue is this was obviously spontaneous. The punishment likely would play no factor in preventing this from happening. If the sentence is death, she still probably would have done it because it wasn't considered. In that case, what does 8 years do that 4 years or life also doesn't do? The harshness of the sentence doesn't matter and it's just another person to pay taxes to keep in prison who is providing nothing in that time. What good does it do besides making people feel like she got what she deserved (aka, revenge).
We get some of that sweet sweet ~~slave~~ free labor!
This fella....just 4 years for killing someone and you still want to white knight here?
He's not being a white knight towards this specific woman.
He's raising the topic of what is best for society.
I agree with his point. Law and order doesn't exist to punish people or to get revenge. It exists for the benefit of society. And putting people in jail, making them unable to contribute to society and becoming a permanent burden on society is bad for society. It doesn't do any good.
Frankly, I think it's better for society to just bring back the guillotine if we aren't going to rehabilitate.
Where did you get 4 years? Plea deal was for 8, judge added 6 months to that.
This isn't a rebuttal against what you're saying overall btw, just a correction on the 4 years. 8.5 years still seems too short.
The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by a large margin. How do you see that as acceptable? We have a culture of revenge and it doesn't do any good. Shouldn't the purpose of laws be to do as much good as possible, not to make people feel nice because they got revenge?
There are people doing more time than her for having weed on their person or passing a bad check to buy groceries or pay rent. Let's start there, not with people who kill old ladies because they're mad about being asked to leave an establishment that is closing.
We need to reform the system completely. Saying we need to start with only one crime is being shortsighted. It's all fucked, and it's fucked so some people can profit off of it. I agree those people serving more time is worse, but it's a symptom of a rotten system, not something we can fix one case at a time.
There are better ways to bring down incarceration rates than to go easy on casual murderers.
I get your position but killing is where I draw the line.
Let's say you accidentally hit someone with your car. Does that deserve a life sentence? You killed someone and I draw the line at killing, so I think we should lock you away forever. Stupid, right? I'm not going to argue for a certain amount of punishment (none of it effectively works to deter crime, especially accidental), but I will argue that we need to fix our system. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world and that doesn't need to be the case. We could have rehabilitation instead of torture too, which would help people when they finally do get out to contribute to society.
Rehabilitation and revenge are two out of the four aims of sentencing. There's also deterrence and prevention: sending a message to everyone else that this is not okay, and simply keeping the convict away from the public so they can't hurt anyone else.
Except we have the data for this. Long sentences don't work effectively for deterrence. If it did, sure. Since it doesn't, that's not valid.
Lmao I can want prison to be a place of rehabilitation and still want a criminal to spend time locked up, away from society.
Yes, they would still be locked up for a period of time. I don't know what the right amount of time is, but just wanting more always creates more issues. You can always ask for more. It never ends. The sentencing time should be based on data and science, not feelings.