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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

This week, hundreds of delegates from around the world began a monthlong meeting as part of Pope Francis’ “Synod on Synodality”—a gathering to discuss the future of the Catholic Church. It could radically change the religion. The group is considering groundbreaking alterations to orthodoxy on same-sex unions and whether or not women can be ordained as priests. The process has changed, too. For the first time, delegates include women.

A synod is a conference for church leaders and lay people to engage in conversation about how to bolster the good of the church. Since the 1960s, delegates from the global church have come together to discuss evolving issues. The current synod is part one of a multi-year process that will culminate in 2024 with Francis’ decisions and includes particularly controversial topics, like celibacy and divorce.

The lead up has been punctuated by conservative concerns about just how liberal this meeting may get. The synod kicks off days after a letter became public in which the pope considered blessing the existence of queer couples and the allowance of female priests.

Pope Francis wrote that while marriage is an “exclusive, stable and indissoluble union between a man and a woman, naturally open to conceiving children,” pastoral charity is also needed, and may be discretionary. Pastoral prudence, he wrote, “must adequately discern if there are forms of blessing, solicited by one or various persons, that don’t transmit a mistaken concept of marriage.” On female priesthood, the pope asserted that, whereas nobody can publicly contradict the church’s current rules prohibiting women’s ordination, they should study it.

For some, this rhetoric may seem like the bare minimum. But for others, like Americans on the right, it’s scary as hell.

Conservative Catholics across the U.S. have been some of the most vocal globally in pushing against reforms, and fear that the church is changing in a way that doesn’t match scripture or their ideology. One New York City priest, Reverend Gerald Murray, worried publicly that the pope “will authorize things that are not contained in Catholic doctrine or that will contradict it,” like women deacons or blessing gay unions. “We’re not Protestants,” he said.

Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, Archbishop Emeritus of St. Louis, a vocal opponent to Pope Francis, was in the group that sent the pope a letter inquiring how he would be responding to these issues at the summit. “It’s unfortunately very clear,” Burke said on Tuesday, “that the invocation of the Holy Spirit on the part of some has as its aim to push forward an agenda that is more political and human than ecclesiastical and divine.” (Burke was not invited to the meeting at the Vatican.)

Pope Francis’ track record on queer and women’s rights is complicated. He formally allowed women to read from the Bible during Mass, but also came out against women becoming ordained. Speaking about queer people in 2013, the pope famously asked, “If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them?” He has argued that homosexuality should not be treated as a crime in different countries but clarifies that he still thinks it’s a sin. Francis has framed many of these decisions as instances where localities should turn toward scripture and an evolving discernment as it befits their needs as part of his hope of growing the Catholic Church.

Because of this potential divide between local and global doctrine and application, it is possible that American Catholics may not even see these changes, should they be formally supported by the pope but not adopted by local priests.

As Mother Jones previously reported, American catholicism has splintered as some of the devout entrench themselves in wider conservative politics. Right-wing provocateurs like Milo Yiannopoulos and Steve Bannon notably have moved in Catholic circles saying Pope Francis should be curtailed. Yiannopoulos, who touts a traditionalist form of Catholicism, has been telling anyone who will listen to him, to “make the Vatican straight again” and “make America homophobic again.”

The pope himself seems unfazed by the ire of American Catholics. “They got mad,” he told reporters in late August after a squabble. “But move on, move on.”

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[-] Davel23@kbin.social 82 points 10 months ago

Reverend Gerald Murray, worried publicly that the pope “will authorize things that are not contained in Catholic doctrine or that will contradict it,”

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Catholic doctrine is what the Pope says it is. The Pope is supposed to be God's representative on Earth, or some bullshit like that.

[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 39 points 10 months ago

Yes. You wouldn’t believe how many Americans think they know their god's will better than god though.

I’ve said it for decades but misogyny is something conservatives will never let go. It’s part of their identity.

[-] June@lemm.ee 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Misogyny is literally baked into the Bible.

1 Timothy 11-12

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.”

1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.”

[-] SatanicNotMessianic@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

As an ex-Catholic and a strong atheist, I feel the need to point out that Catholics do not subscribe to the doctrine of sola scriptura - Biblical literalism as defined by a human institution - and considers it borderline heretical.

[-] June@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Very true.

I come from an evangelical background which I treat as ‘American Christianity’ as it’s the predominant, loudest, and currently most politically powerful sect. When we deal with the likes of trump supporters, they’ll be evangelicals almost across the board.

[-] canihasaccount@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago
[-] June@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

A quick google estimates that there are between 45 and 72 millions Catholics in the US and between 90 and 100 million evangelicals.

This article says Catholics make up 12% of registered voters while evangelicals make up about 20%.

Between 77% and 84% of white evangelicals voted for trump depending on which reports you look at.

Evangelicals are the larger bloc, and a larger percentage of them voted trump.

[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 2 points 10 months ago

Who gets to decide what the current views and rules of the church are, the pope? I'd assume it's absolutely against the rules to question what the pope says then, right? So, anybody who isn't in line with what the current pope is saying a heretic too.

The whole thing is so stupid. Just like every religion, even with the rules written down, often to a mind-numbing degree, it's always subject to interpretation. Just see the vast difference in interpretation between what various muslim groups think women should be allowed / forbidden to show.

[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

That was exactly my thought. Reverend Gerald Murray doesn't seem to know some of the basics of Catholicism.

[-] uid0gid0@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

The same verses that the Pope drives his authority from say that he can so change stuff. Matthew 16:17-19.

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, b and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades c will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be d bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be e loosed in heaven

[-] fluxion@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

As Lord Jiraiya's representative on Earth, I can confirm this

[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 months ago

12 years of Catholic school here and you would be correct, sir/madam.

this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2023
383 points (96.4% liked)

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