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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2023
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https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/billionaire-investor-peter-thiel-has-5b-his-tax-free-retirement-n1272317
There is an annual contribution limit of $6,500 into a Roth IRA. They are something many Americans have as they are a solid investment choice. Invest the money in a total stock market fund and it will help you greatly when you retire.
The reason he has so fucking much money in his is because he literally gambled the money in the account. Someone is always going to win the lottery.
Uh not really… he started PayPal and then sold himself like 1 million shares at $0.001 (a tenth of a penny!) a share. Did you even read the article? Literally anyone who starts a business has to inject capital. It’s not gambling any more than any other person simply starting a business.
Also if you do read the article. You will learn it is not just Peter thiel, but many many many wealthy individuals who have done similar things. You say “the ultra wealthy would love to have Roth IRAs!” Well guess what: they do and it’s often a substantial portion of their fortune.
So what is your point now?
He did that in 1999 when PayPal was still X.com, something almost nobody has heard of, and it was not clear if the company would make it. As I said, he gambled his money and he won the lottery. Someone is always going to win the lottery.
You say in your original comment to me “the ultra wealthy would love to benefit from Roth IRAs!” Well guess what: they do and it’s often a substantial portion of their fortune.
So what is your point now?
They can still only put in $6,500 per year into the account. As I said "Rich people would LOVE to own more in the same way and pay less taxes."
This guy won the lottery. Should we kill a program that you can only put $6,500 in per year that millions of Americans use just because someone wins the lottery? If that is the route you suggest, we will have to go and kill every program that people use to invest in their future.
So they’d love to do a thing that they have all demonstrated they are perfectly capable of doing? What is even the value of such a comment?
Citation needed. You can’t invest in a Roth above a certain income as well, so that filters out a lot of folks. And at $5500/yr (only went to $6500/yr a few years ago) the math simply doesn’t make sense. Billionaires aren’t billionaires (or even those in the 8-9 figure world) because of a Roth and it is absolutely not a substantial part of their wealth. You can’t even access it until your 60’s without insane penalties.
Thiel’s case is the exception. Most billionaires aren’t sitting on that kind of wealth in a Roth. Most “ultra wealthy” folks were given a lot of money to start with.
Dude I literally linked an article in this very comment chain about how 5 billion of Peter Thiel’s dollars are tied up in a Roth IRA he started in the 90s, which covers interviews with the financial advisor who suggested he do it in the first place, and which talks about how this is an extremely common thing to do (literally why wouldn’t anybody who is already a multimillionaire NOT do what Peter Thiel did when they start their next business).
I addressed Thiel
Have you ever heard of the backdoor Roth?
Yes. It’s a taxable event that also counts as income which could lead to even higher tax rates for you. It’s distinct from straight up contributing to one as intended and is a separate issue IMO.
excuse me but I did not say that the ultra wealthy use Roth IRAs to successfully avoid 100% of taxes. Only that the ultra wealthy keep significant amounts of assets in Roth IRAs. You told me that you didn’t believe me because there are income limits. So I told you about a longstanding strategy precisely designed to get around those very income limits. Yes, there is some up front tax, but it really is a small price to pay.
So what is there to dispute now if we both agree that it’s relatively easy for the ultra wealthy to get around the income limits of Roth IRAs.
You can get around limits with strategies like backdoor Roth IRA, also in some cases if you are the owner of the company you can have the company make distributions / contributions for you that go beyond the normal limits as well.
Ultimately, it is very much geared to benefit those that already have.