1615
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2023
1615 points (97.8% liked)
World News
39174 readers
2192 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Well in reality there isn't much we can do as normal folk to reverse or slow down the impending doom of global warming.
It's all in the hands of the big corporations that we all know are the biggest contributors, to the whole debacle. They are not going to change a damn thing because is all about the extreme profiteering.
Yes and no, I think. Obviously one single person can't make a tangible difference all by themselves, but to stop the thought process there does a massive disservice to the importance of collective action. It doesn't take all that many people to affect change, both politically and culturally. Join CCL (US focus here), vote and advocate for carbon fee and dividend and other beneficial policies, buy less shit you don't need, ride a bike if you can, and if you have the means electrify your home/vehicle and support more ethical companies. Basically, don't blame BP if you're putting 20 gallons of their shit in your 4runner every week so you can commute to an office job with a permanent rooftop tent and a "save our winters" sticker on the back (yes I live in the front range). You're not responsible for all of humanity, but you are responsible for your own actions when you have the means to choose a less carbon intensive option.
This is just propaganda from the 90s/00s. The amount of carbon that any one middle class home generates is nothing compared to the private jet class and the corporate desolation of the environment. I hate capitalism. I hate consumerism. I hate cars. But don't act like the onus is on what basically amounts to a peasant class that already pays for almost everything and does nearly all of the work (the middle class). It's systemic greed, deregulation, and industrial rape of the world's resources by shit governments and corporations that have put us here. Stop making the middle class responsible for something they have no power to change even though most of us are anxious as fuck about it. If enough individuals can simultaneously change their carbon footprint to the point that it actually affects the coming consequences, then we should have just formed a general strike already to reverse capitalism caused climate change. But we didn't.
The carbon emission from anyone in a developed country is a gargantuan amount compared to the poorest people on earth, especially if you consider the share of CO2 emissions since the industrial revolution.
The "private jet class" you are talking about is the "peasant class" of the developed countrles.
No one want to be accountable, corporate blame it on consumers, consumer blame it on corporate, and the state doesn't want to act because they fear the backslash from both citizens and corporations.
We urgently need drastic change that will undoubtedly and severely lower our quality of life. No magic tech is coming to save us.
???
Don't you know that people living on minimum wage in the US are all flying private jets?
It is all the corporations but not how anyone thinks. Corporations want you to buy things. That is all. Corporations shifted it to the consumer with the whole reduce, reuse, recycle thing. The average person in the US buys way too many things. The FIRE movement recognized this in the 2010s. Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin figured it out before they wrote the book Your Money or Your Life in the 1990s. Every dollar you spend = emissions.
Last, I present the great George Carlin:
https://youtu.be/KLODGhEyLvk
I agree, we need to reverse the conspicuous consumerism that was promoted by corporate marketing departments. This is not going to be a simple task.
No, it's propaganda to absolve people from their collective responsibility and blame the nebulous capitalist and corporatism boogeymen while ignoring things they actually can accomplish, like voting for policies and regulations that will have an actual impact. The Soviet Union and China have emitted a shit ton of carbon, but I suppose that's all capitalism's fault too. Your post is a walking contradiction - people have no responsibility or agency and shouldn't bother doing anything, yet are also supposed to general strike and fix everything. Your attitude is pro-status quo and therefore serves the entrenched interests you claim to be rallying against.
Ahh yes, the "just vote harder" argument. Speaking of "pro-status quo" lmao. What is your next advice to those of us who already vote (which is the bare minimum, not some silver bullet that ends all of our problems)?
Climate crisis, corporate ownership of government, and governmental corruption are all reality because you didn't vote enough, you stupid idiots! /s
Considering huge numbers of people don't vote at all, and many others that do vote against their self interests and for their short term gain over environmental policies, we collectively have a lot of work to do on this front. I agree voting is the bare minimum but it bears repeating since we suck at it.
If you actually care about my "next advice", you should be writing your reps, nationally and locally, on a regular basis, you should organize with groups like CCL, and you should get involved in local transportation and housing policy discussions. What's your job/career? Can you enact any change there, or move to a job that has more opportunity? I could go on and on. Not attacking you personally, but most folks I've met with the doom and gloom, not my problem attitude don't do fuck all.
You're asking me what people can do and I've given multiple examples. What are your ideas? All I'm hearing is we should have done a general strike and killed capitalism, as if cheap natural gas is only a problem when a capitalist burns it for profit.
Calling to individual action to solve climate change is literally the status quo
Many things can be the status quo at once. I'm just tired of binary, weak thinking that blames any one party 100% and absolves all others, which is why I started my original post with "yes and no". It's not productive, and it's already crystal clear what we need to do as a society - go read Drawdown for a simple primer on decarbonization and what needs to happen. If people actually did the individual action thing en masse it would have a real effect (not enough in isolation of course) but surprise, lots of people don't actually give a shit and hide behind their nihilism and the "corporations are the real problem" thing. Folks should focus on enacting policies first, then individual actions where they can. Doing nothing is, well, worth nothing.
Here's the thing though: The collective carbon footprint of the middle class absolutely dwarfs that of the private jet class.
The middle class is responsible, the middle class will pay, and honestly I'm here for it.
The issue is people who consume/pollute 10x as much as others per person. People can try to reduce their footprint but it's pretty lame when some rich person creates as much pollution in one unnecessary plane trip as my household would all year.
Indeed, but 10x doesn't cut it. The middle class pollutes about 100x more than the lower class per capita. But they'll get what's coming to them.
Okay, so my point was wealthy people dramatically exceed that figure, too. Your claim about total pollution isn't that convincing since yes, obviously 150,000,000 middle class people have more of an impact than 1,000,000 very wealthy people. But per-capita, for sure the people taking private jets blow away the middle class. But is the average American wasteful? Sure. However also our society has been set up so it's very difficult to live without a car and a ton of semi-disposable manufactured items. People emerging from poverty in countries like India and China have shown plenty of enthusiasm to live in the same wasteful way as the middle class in the west, so... also not sure what your point is. Those people don't pollute as much because they can't afford to, not because they're morally superior.
And that is a problem from a social perspective. But from a climate perspective, focusing on the wealthy is nothing more than an attempt to shift blame.
Society has not been set up like that by accident. This, too, is the fault of the middle class, for being lazy fucks who would rather drive their car everywhere than look for alternative modes of transport; for eating meat two or even three meals a day, every day; for choosing to live in their mcmansions in car dependant suburban sprawls instead of denser housing; etc. etc.
They are part of the problem, of course.
The point is that over the next several decades, a lot of people will get what they fucking deserve 👍
The people who suffer the most will be people in developing countries, already subsisting on sketchy agriculture and short on fresh water, when they're hit the hardest by climate change and lack resources to migrate or change their lifestyle.
Absolutely. And that sucks. But I derive a certain catharsis from knowing that at least some of the people responsible will suffer along with them.
Fret not, clown! The middle class will be dead and your billionaire buddies will be treating each other like loot drops because none of this is being reversed. Fucking pick me peasant lmao get the fuck out of here.
Billionaires ain't no buddies of mine. They will be able to buy their way free of the worst of the climate disaster, and that sucks.
But the middle class, at least, will have to pay their dues. And that does not suck.
I've been trying to make changes to my consuming habits for a good number of years in pro of contributing (however small it might be) to the climate change fight. But, just as on wintermule says in the comments. It might be a lost fight for us mere individuals.
Just look at the data and then you'll realise that corporatins have been screwing the planet for a long long time now.
It’s not a lost fight at all. The largest single contributors to global warming are :
It’s very easy for people to make some choices to put a huge dent in both of these…if they want to.
The sad fact is that when confronted by this, most people I speak so make excuses about why they couldn’t possibly make changes to their own lives.
Yes, these are systemic issues. But don’t pretend you’re powerless - that’s just a fucking cop-out.
This
If their consumers aren’t setting a good example then why should they? They don’t care as long as we don’t.