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The first EV with a lithium-free sodium battery hits the road in January
(www.engadget.com)
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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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'252 km (157 miles) range' to save others the same skimming I did
Not bad for that battery's first outing
Perfect for my needs. But I doubt it will ever be for sale here in the U.S.
The key is that with the right use case, it frees up lithium to be used where only it is suitable.
(for my needs I'd be fine with sodium...)
I can see that. My point is that the only electric car that has that range in the U.S. is the Leaf, which goes 168 miles on the smaller battery. I don't need an electric car that goes that many miles between charges. I'd be fine with 90. I'd probably be fine with less than 90. We have a second car if we ever want to leave town. I'd ditch my hybrid and get a cheaper electric car that didn't have a huge range, but it isn't even on offer.
Dude get a used Leaf or Bolt. There is a $4k tax credit or direct price reduction for used now.
Got any info on that? Looking at buying out my EV lease and wonder if I can get that added.
For sure! I think we're going to have to move away from a one-size fits all car design. For general city use, I use a Chevy Bolt, but for longer (infrequent) runs, I'm still stuck with ICE (I'd use a hybrid if I had one). In Canada, the range really does go down in the winter. (and Canada has not taken charging infrastructure very seriously - mandatory for adoption)
Anyway you look at it, these are very, very positive developments.
check out the bmw i3 if you are good with that range
They are as expensive as the other EVs and aren't eligible for the US reimbursement 🫤
They are kinda ugly too... Which sucks because I really love the BMW driving experience
I would love to have an electric smart car for running errands.
Exactly! Something cheap and tiny for just going around town.
My problem is that I need >100 mile range. I live in a cold climate and have a 50 mile, round-trip commute (and high speed, so even worse range), so if EVs get half the range in the winter, I could stuck. There isn't a big set of cars in the 100-150 mile range, usually you get something older and used with <100, or current cars get >200 and you pay the price for it.
A new Leaf is something like $30k, and used Leafs are something like $17k, so it's absolutely not worth replacing my reliable hybrid car at that price. If I could get a new car around $20k with ~150 mile range, or a used car (~5 years old) with 100-150 mile range for 10k, I'd probably buy it. But that just isn't a thing right now. So I'm waiting.
I've found people vastly overstated how much range they need. 99% of usage is in the city between home and somewhere else. 250km is perfect if the price is right.
For daily use, sure - but it completely excludes itself as an option for road trips in the US and parts of Canada. There's a stretch of interstate road near me with nearly a 100 mile gap between service stations.
I know that this isn't the purpose of this battery, but it's a valid reason why a lot of people might be hesitant to buy one. Many people can't afford multiple vehicles for different purposes. You have the car you drive to work with, and if you happen to go on a trip you just use the same thing.
Maybe 99% of use occurs within constraints that this battery can handle, but if you can only afford one vehicle, then this is still a pretty suboptimal option. That being said... it could still be cheap enough to not matter. I didn't see any mention of price in that article.
If 99% is covered by this then cover your last 1% by renting a vehicle has that ever occurred to you ?
I agree with your logic. It makes perfect sense to rent a vehicle for edge cases.
However, I disagree that you’re going to encourage mass adoption by asking people to change their lifestyle. A large amount of the US population views their vehicle as more than a tool to get to and from work. It’s an extension of their personality. Road trips might be part of that personality.
They’re sold on the marketing ideals of luxury, comfort, or adventure. They buy accessories for these vehicles like roof-racks for their luggage or campers/trailers to help them travel across the country while keeping that comfort of home. Tens of thousands of campers are still sold in the U.S. every year and EV’s are a nonstarter for towing more than 75 miles.
No one enjoys renting an unfamiliar Honda CR-V where the seat doesn’t feel quite right for long periods of time, there’s something sticky on the shift handle, the previous driver smoked in it, and you hear a plastic creaking sound coming from the back seat. You can’t quite figure out from where and it’s driving you insane.
Until EV’s can match the convenience and capability of ICE vehicles, adoption is going to be limited.
If we can't convince people that we need to change habits then we are doomed anyway, switching to BE cars is not a viable solution we need to increase public transportation and cycling anyway
average american has two vehicles. Its literally not even a lifestyle change: one EV, one hybrid or gas vehicle will cover 100% of normal use cases. EVs have lower maintenance costs and longer predicted life spans and don't waste as much energy in stop and go traffic. They are superior commuter vehicles.
The problem is vehicle fleets. Trucks and busses will be hard to replace effectively and they mostly need longer discharge cycles and ranges.
Maybe we have to settle for suboptimal solutions from time to time to save the planet?
That’s not how car sales work. People want EVs without major downsides. Until that’s what’s available we won’t be see EVs surpass 10% market share.
I know, people are not willing to comprises for the good of the planet. That's why we're so fucked.
They should raise the driving age to 30. Then people would understand what a privilege driving really is.
A solution to this would be an extra expansion battery that you could buy or rent as an add-on only when needed.
...or rent a vehicle with the fuel savings from driving your EV most of the year, and skip putting a couple thousand km on your car over a long weekend.
This is what I do.
You still pay the cost of driving a car a couple thousand km though, right?
Most rental places in the states don't charge mileage iirc
If we're going all in with expansion packs we should add a rumble pack as well 😏
or don't buy city car for intercity trips. Get li-ion powered cars or wait for them to make model with bigger range.
Just use Communauto for those once a quarter out of town trips.
It seems to me that car in the article is relatively small city car. I can imagine that building bigger car with inter city travels in mind would also include an improved range.
Most of the pollution problem is in cities with lots of vehicles. EVs dont do as much for their purpose at the hindredth meridian where the great plains begin...driving down a cordoroy road, weeds standing shoulder-high
Exactly. We have two cars, and we only need one to have any kind of range. The other is fine with 250km/150mi range, but it needs to be relatively inexpensive to buy and repair. It'll just be for a daily commute and around-town driving, no expectation for long-distance.
It doesn't need space for people or stuff, just 2-4 passengers is plenty. It'll strictly be for commutes and small trips to the grocery store and whatnot, the other car can be used for larger trips.
Id like to add that there are different versions of the car, with the long range version being 302km range, and the battery mass to energy ratio is actually average compared to other batteries.
https://www.batterydesign.net/sehol-e10x-sodium-ion/
Wow that sounds very useable
That's not bad if the price is right.
I'd be willing to buy one for ~$5-8k.
5-8k for a car in this day and age? That's the price of a scooter
Citröen Ami.
The Ami starts for substantially more than that.
And even then, it's not legally classified as a car. It has virtually no crash safety, a top speed of 28mph assuming no incline, and a real world range of 40 miles.
Don't get me wrong, I like the Ami, but it's a scooter alternative more than a car alternative.
Lmao $5k for a brand new car. You're dreaming mate
Who ever said brand new?
Might want to brush up on your reading comprehension, 'mate'.
It's a post about a new vehicle, when you talk about "buying one" it's clearly inferred you're buying from the factory.
Also, there's no need to be a complete dick. It's not a good look for you
No, it's not inferred at all. The vast majority of people buying cars buy them used.
You're just desperate to justify your assumption.
I'd pay $15-20, depending on how well it worked.
Lol
Perfectly usable for urban travel in Chinese cities
And recharging times?