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[-] Neato@ttrpg.network 144 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'm not going to say most Democrats aren't capitalists and in corporations' pockets. But one party got ACA passed and tried to get some student loan forgiveness passed. Along with a whole number of different laws passed for worker protections and similar over the last few years.

On the other hand, Republicans have Trump who tried to pass Schedule F for government workers which would have taken us back to the spoils system where Presidents hand out government appointments, jobs and ambassadorships as rewards for loyalty. FYI we got rid of this system after it directly caused President Garfield's assassination. That's just one of many anti-worker, anti-poor, and anti-people reforms the last Republican president tried to accomplish. We don't even need to touch the entire Republican party's fascination with stripped rights away from women and trans people.

Both sides is bullshit.

[-] queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 8 months ago

"Ya know, they say the next bomb will be sent by a Democrat in office rather than a Republican."

"Damn, that makes my Genocide feel so much nicer. I hope they maybe legalize weed for them in another 4 election cycles."

[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Either guy will send the bomb but one guy will reform elections and taxes so that your opinion matters perpetually for every guy after. I feel like that's worth not saying they're literally the same.

Also, Obama actually ended a lot of conflicts and shielded a lot of the middle east against violence, even if Biden added shit to the bed filled with Trump's shit.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 29 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Keeping you placated with those less than bare minimum gestures which, while helpful on a superficial level to some, don't actually change anything fundamental in the grand scheme of things, is exactly how liberals enable fascism.

Equating left and right wings as "both sides" is bullshit, but liberals aren't on the left, therefore pointing out that democrats and republicans serve the same system and people isn't "both sides" at all, it's a statement of demonstrable fact, however uncomfortable that might be - both parties exist to keep those with power and money with power and money, for that to happen, they have to keep you (never mind those exploited overseas, out of sight out of mind) poor and powerless.

For anyone willing to challenge their bias and comfort:

https://truthout.org/articles/fascism-is-possible-not-in-spite-of-liberal-capitalism-but-because-of-it/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/10/14/liberalism-and-fascism-partners-in-crime/

https://web.archive.org/web/20230803021951/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/22/american-democracy-was-never-designed-to-be-democratic-eric-holder-our-unfinished-march-nick-seabrook-one-person-one-vote-jacob-grumbach-laboratories-against-democracy

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The ACA?

You mean RomneyCare?

The Republican plan Obama chose because they wouldn't vote against their own plan?

Oh and Biden is the reason we can't discharge student debt in bankruptcy. He personally helped pass that bill. So happy he tried and failed to undo his own mess. (Which was a half ass plan anyway instead of just making student loans discharchable in bankruptcy again.)

Yeah. Sure, Jan.

EDIT: Links of proof added.

[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago

And your alternative for this next election cycle is what exactly? Be crystal clear. What is the realistic outcome of not supporting Biden over any Republican? How would Trump or Nikki Hailey as president be better for the left than Biden?

Feelings about the past are important, but strategies for the future matter more. Biden has done shitty things, but the best Republican would be orders of magnitude worse. We can't expect bad people to get what they deserve because it usually isn't possible. The only achievable justice is the mitigation of future injustice. Cosmic punishment can only be delivered by a god, and attempts to enforce it will often lead us astray.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Bro you can critique the people you vote for.

I don't know why people always assume correctly critiquing democrats for being failures to the left and to workers means they think we would vote for an actual fascist.

No we want better options period.

[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

Leftist equivocation is more than a simple "critique." It distorts reality to paint a hopeless picture that encourages apathy and people who unironically choose to not vote for the lesser evil. It brings this both sides bullshit into the realm of acceptable conversation when it really shouldn't be.

It's like when Nazis talk about Soros controlling the world and promoting "globalism." There are valid criticisms that must be made about billionaires like Soros and their promotion of global capitalism, but that isn't what Nazis mean when they fear monger about them. They single out Soros because he's Jewish, say he controls the world because of cabal conspiracy theories, and don't give a fuck about fixing capitalist exploitation. You don't let the Nazi stay once they become identifiable; you kick them out and avoid feeding their arguments.

Just like how many conservatives that complain about Soros are unaware of the Nazi dogwhistles, many Leftists who equivocate the parties don't recognize the accelerationist underpinnings. Your critique of Biden isn't the problem. Unintentionally feeding apathy and accelerationism is where you fuck up. Bring up those critiques in a post that doesn't promote apathy. A generic "Democrats suck" post would be better than this meme.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago

So I'm still going to vote for a Democrat, which is all you wanted from me 15 hours ago.

But now I'm getting a screeching screed about how that's not enough.

Fucking fuck off man.

[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I'm sorry. I wasn't explicit or careful enough in my wording. To clarify, you aren't the one equivocating, the op of this meme is. The only mistake you made is supporting his argument unintentionally. You're right about Biden, but context matters.

The internet sucks, and people automatically interpret a critique of a critique as defense of the original point. I do it to others even though I get caught up in the same trap all the time. I feel your pain.

[-] Soulg@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Beautifully put.

[-] LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 8 months ago

The ACA fails to provide healthcare access to the most vulnerable and disenfranchised groups. It's an epic failure and capitist nightmare.

Biden didn't attempt to forgive student loan debt. If you dig just a bit, you'll find it was all theater. He even worsened the situation for many. The only people he's helped are select groups of the "right" people.

He has also expanded the reach of ICE, continued Trump's wall, and expressed support for the genocidal state of Israel.

I'm not saying Republicans aren't worse, but it's foolish to try to silence leftists and progressives when we point out how deeply problematic all of this is.

[-] squiblet@kbin.social 13 points 8 months ago

The ACA was not what Democrats were looking to pass originally. It was a compromise reached with idiot republicans (who mostly wanted no reform at all) in the context of an absolutely massive propaganda and lobbying effort from insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The ACA could have been potentially a great law, despite being based on RomneyCare... until Joe Lieberman stripped out the Public Option that would have slowly undermined the corporate insurance industry by being cheaper, and was meant to be a path to Universal Healthcare.

Fucking Blue Dog Democrats, they may as well be Republicans.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

biden was blocked from doing anything on sweeping blanket forgiveness of loan debt by the supreme court but that hasn't stopped him from forgiving thousands of dollars of it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/10/29/biden-administration-has-forgiven-127-billion-in-student-debt.html#cobssid=s

[-] ParrotWeiler@ani.social 8 points 8 months ago

The post is about the core policies of both parties being to shit all over the worker while enriching the capitalist class. It's important to weigh the bad things that Republicans do against the good things that the Democrats don't do. Why has the federal minimum wage not increased from 7.25/h since the year 2009 despite Democratic legislative majorities? Why did the DNC prop up Hillary, quite possibly the most unelectable candidate in American history, When Bernie had such obvious grassroots support? What have the Democrats done to stop massive hedge funds like BlackRock from buying up all the single family homes so they can rent them to workers essentially creating a slave state? Oh great the average worker is never going to be able to afford their own home in their lifetime but at least our Democratic overlords are making sure employers can't be racist and students who made bad financial decisions are getting bailed out. Speaking of being bailed out, Democrats certainly didn't stop the bank bailout of 2008. Guess the party of the people thinks they should pay for the mistakes of the 1%.

Both sides completely throw the worker under the bus.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

In 2003 I was working as a Master Control Operator for a local television station. This was complicated work and legalese work. We had to legally sign off on what commercials were being aired, while also doing the job of actually airing them on time, and recording shows from satellite so we could air them. We had to sign off on this legally to prove to the companies that had paid for the ads that they were running when and how long they were supposed to. I literally answered to the FCC and could be fined massive amounts and/or jailed if I screwed up too badly.

I was being paid the Federal Minimum of $5.15 an hour at the time. It hasn't gotten better. Even complex technical work has been completely devalued.

[-] ParrotWeiler@ani.social 7 points 8 months ago

You're right. accounting for inflation 5.15 in 2003 would be worth 8.45 in 2023 dollars. That's a 16.5% loss of purchasing power. That's before you account for the soaring mortgage/rent rates. But young people are just lazy these days...

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[-] Bristlecone@lemmy.world 64 points 8 months ago

Centrist bullshit, the right loves this kind of shit

[-] kzhe@lemmy.zip 15 points 8 months ago

Not really. Most who hold this view are far left.

[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 12 points 8 months ago

It's still a stupid view based on frustration with the establishment rather than reality. Emotions being valid doesn't make a falsehood more correct. Republicans have never been worse and Democrats are better than they've been in decades.

The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism. It's a morally bankrupt strategy that's unlikely to work, but at least it's a long term plan that thinks beyond cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[-] bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

>The only coherent argument behind not voting for Biden is accelerationism.

wrong. he's a bad guy who has a bad history and bad policies. that's a very good reason not to vote for him.

EDIT:

this user is making shit up and insulting anyone who points it out. if you ignore them, they might go away.

[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago

biden is one of the most progressive presidents weve had in modern history. your criticism is with congress

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[-] Xariphon@kbin.social 53 points 8 months ago

Keep telling yourself this. Trump thanks you for getting out of the way.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

bibi sent me a suitcase full of cash for you. where do you want me to leave it?

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Please do not use the cutesey diminutive form of his name. We don't need to cute up fucking genocidal freaks.

I get what you were going for, and I agree, but you can just say "Netanyahu."

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 8 months ago

I want to be friends, so don't tell me what to do.

[-] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 8 months ago

Why would you want to be friends with bibi?

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[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I didn't realize asking and saying please was "telling someone what to do."

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[-] TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago

Next to those Soros bucks Republicans think we earn for opposing fascism.

[-] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

This meme is like farting and wafting it in the democrats general direction. Every one up in arms have gotten way too sensitive. Rightfully so when fascists are at the door but I'm telling you this meme is throwing a single feather at a woman wearing a pussy hat.

[-] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 52 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Sorry but living under the pandemic and having a moron POTUS say "we don't need masks cuz lol bleach is the cure" is enough of a difference.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Do you ever think we ended up with Trump as POTUS because nothing was ever done about idiot Bush and his literal war crimes?

To some of us, Democrats are enablers of the fascism of Republicans.

Why? Because of shit like not being willing to prosecute former Presidents for war crimes.

Our country not having the balls to send Bush and Cheney to the fucking Hague is part and parcel to why they won't do anything about Trumps unhinged criminal conspiracies.

The entire Democratic party folded over for Bush and Cheney, and people cooed like it was cute when Michelle Obama and Bush shared a piece of candy. Fucking sickening shit.

Just wait until they do the same media rehabilitation tour for Trump.

[-] ParrotWeiler@ani.social 7 points 8 months ago

Neither party wants to prosecute war crimes because both are guilty of them. Military spending and diplomacy are completely unchanged in the case of either party being in power.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 8 months ago

Agreed. Obama didn't just let it slide, he took office and immediately formally legalized nearly all the shady shit Bush was up to.

[-] zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 8 months ago

When politicians are left to their own devices then there is no accountability. Voting doesn't hold them accountable but it does mitigate the damage. If you want accountability, then you organize and shut shit down.

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[-] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

Haven't you got the memo? You shouldn't be criticizing anyone when the alternative is way worse. Don't you know not being as bad basically makes you perfect?

[-] fidodo@lemmy.world 32 points 8 months ago

It's more than fine to criticize, but calling them the same is just plain incorrect.

[-] Droggelbecher@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

They didn't though? The meme says they both kill the poor, which is just true

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[-] kzhe@lemmy.zip 20 points 8 months ago

A better analogy (without the joke) would be Kill the Poor Vs. Kill Some of the Poor. Not that either is good but I'd rather save the half.

[-] DessertStorms@kbin.social 6 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Not that either is good but I’d rather ~~save~~ kill the other half

Is also true, are you still comfortable?

The point being - why insist on and make excuses for continuing to play within the rules dictated to you by those in charge who will only ever let you choose one of the two options where many poor people die? Why are you people so fucking content with this charade and unwilling to think outside of the box literally designed to oppress you (or your neighbour, which seems acceptable to far too many)???

You (personally, and in general) really need to consider with yourselves why the option of "refuse to accept this bullshit and fight for a system where no poor are required to die" (E: not even for the benefit of society at large, but literally for the benefit of a couple of hundred individuals who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire) doesn't even cross your mind before you're willing to condemn half of your class to death (as long as it isn't you), while calling those of us who want to eat the rich (kill the few hundred with millions of peoples' blood on their hands who will refuse to give up their ill gotten power and money) "extremists"..

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 8 points 8 months ago

What's with these takes on 196?

It isn't about killing the half and it is about saving. Trans people are the target of the GOP right now. Laws are being passed. If Trump or Desantis wins people are going to get lined up.

Let me ask now. Between the Dems and Republicans, in which administration and government control would trans people have a higher chance of survival, being free, allowed to actually transition and express themselves?

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[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 20 points 8 months ago

kill the poor vs try not to kill the poor but ultimately end up giving into republican bad faith arguments and compromise away life from some of the poor while making life marginally better for some of the white ones

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[-] thecrotch@sh.itjust.works 13 points 8 months ago

ITT: "Your reasonable and verifiably accurate criticisms of the Democrats are nice and everything, but I typed 'both sides' with alternating caps and lowercase so I win. Go suck trump/Putin's cock."

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

We have the blue tie rights, and the red tie jihadists running the Nazi playbook.

There is no center, there is no left, and there is no one immune to the feudal corruption of the billionaire oligarchy. You already own nothing. We are already serfs. A two party system is not a true democracy. Still, the theocracy must die.

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I mean the explicit lyric law was pushed by Tipper Gore, Al Gore's at the time wife.

This is on point.

[-] Thcdenton@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

Post is perfectly balanced for maximum reeeee

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