this post was submitted on 13 Jan 2024
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effort

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Lately I’ve been seeing posters here express some form of the sentiment that Hexbear has fallen from its previous heights of glory and now we post amongst the ruins of greatness. This is not a response to anyone in particular, and I don’t want to call anyone out. In fact, it seems to be a normal human tendency to romanticize the past. But I’ve been here since the beginning and want to provide an alternate view.

1. Hexbear just isn’t like it used to be. doomjak

This is one I am particularly suspicious of, since people started posting this after the site had been around for a couple of months. Before that they posted about how chapo.chat wasn’t like the old chapotraphouse subreddit. If the good ol’ days ever existed, they always seem to have been just prior to the current moment. If anything the site culture and vibe have been remarkably consistent since its inception, for better or worse. Faces have changed, people have come and gone and sometimes come back again, but Hexbear remains.

2. People used to be nice here and treat each other as comrades. Now there is just a culture of shallow dunks. doomer

Seriously? Be for real. I’m not going to deny that we love a good dunk around here, but let’s not pretend that this is a new phenomenon. It’s a big part of the culture around here that predates the site and even arguably even the subreddit. You can be free to like it or not, criticize it or not, say its productive or not, but its definitely not a new development. There’s always been a lot of love and mutual support, but also a lot of vicious arguments intracommunity arguments here. If anything I think there’s less of this now. The early posters would laugh at what passes for a struggle session around here these days. The VCJ struggle session seemed at the time like it might legitimately end the entire site.

3. This site had the potential to be a place for organizing and building something rather than just posting. marx-doomer

This one is an interesting counterfactual. From the beginning there was no clear agreement on what the ultimate purpose of the site would be, and there were definitely people who saw the site as having revolutionary potential. There were also people who saw it as a place to hang out and shitpost among comrades and were skeptical of its potential for organizing. Over time, I think it’s become clear that we’re closer to the latter than the former. I’m okay with that, personally, but more than that I think it’s worth considering why despite having a lot of smart, determined people on the site, organizing never really materialized, or if it ever had that potential in the first place.

4. People used to post effort posts and stuff and now its just a bunch of shitposting. internet-delenda-est

It’s always been mostly shitposting. This is one of my first comments on this site. It’s hard to say if there really used to be more effort posts or not, but what’s stopping you from writing an effort post if you feel like Hexbear needs more of them? I’m doing it right now, and so can you.

One thing that really has changed is that we used to have more comrades actively working on developing the site. Hopefully more people will step up to do that (not me though because I can’t code).

In conclusion, Hexbear is mostly, for better or worse, as it always has been. Enjoy your time here without worrying about whether it measures up to some imagined glorious past. If there’s something you feel is lacking, step up and contribute it. This site is nothing more or less than the sum of our contributions.

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[–] Zodiark@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

My contention was the declining frequency of political and sociologically insightful essays, posts, comments, and content of Hexbear/Chapochat.

I agree with all your points made here though. Nostalgia bias might be corrupting our perception of the site culture; maybe we were just more active because this site was born of Covid-lockdowns and exiles from the chapotraphouse reddit and therefore the site really was more active with a higher frequency of insightful posts and comments.

But that is no longer here nor there. The insight I've learned is that we, as people, romanticize our childhoods and adolescence because it was also the period of our life we were constantly improving and changing. Hexbear's energy is thee comparison to growth and energy of a 17 year old vs the energy of a 35 year old, I said.

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[–] abc@hexbear.net 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hexbear and its predecessor CTH have always been shit, will always be shit, and that's the way I like it thank you good post.

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[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah pretty much.

Only thing I kinda miss is the UlyssesT posting, but that’s probably because as a fellow member of the “Hexbear Highschool Teacher’s for Media Literacy” Caucus he yelled at people for their bad takes that I just don’t have the energy for.

One thing the site has gotten better at from the r/chapo days is the inclusiveness- used to get a whole bunch of class reductionist’s come out the woodwork anytime a PoC/Queer/etc. opinion was expressed, this site becoming an overwhelmingly trans friendly space having many great knock on effects for other minorities. It’s not perfect, but it’s better

[–] voight@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

used to get a whole bunch of class reductionist’s come out the woodwork anytime a PoC/Queer/etc. opinion was expressed

That sounds terrible, would you be alright with giving an example so people can avoid doing this again?

[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was the usual "your issues are distracting from the class struggle/you are weaponizing your identity to play identity politics" type stuff, that tbh I haven't really seen since the trans struggle session and the Great Purge that followed.

[–] voight@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will be on the lookout for "the usual"

[–] CriticalOtaku@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I tried to look for examples, but the posts get deleted when the user's banned so shrug-outta-hecks

You can read this thread for a summary of all the old bullshit, I guess. So, like, just don't do what TC69 is complaining about in there and you won't be a class reductionist? Doesn't seem like a high bar to clear, tbh.

Edit: There's also the modlog lol

[–] voight@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well it's definitely a different era. Everyone is chill as fuck and they all get together and trash fediverse people in a way that still gives them a chance to redeem themselves kinda (i don't actually care so idk really)

Please don't look at any examples of me arguing with people that's illegal

[–] TheGenderWitch@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago

we have this post every 3 months

[–] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago

It's the same thing in most any group. People will say the group was better at the start, but if you scroll to the very beginning there won't be much of note.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Here's my perspective of someone who joined before federation but who didn't really have any connection with the original subreddit or the first few years.

1 and 2: I would say pre-federation Hexbear (meaning post-2021 pre-federation Hexbear since I wasn't around in 2020-2021) wasn't in a good place. I felt that it was mostly circling down the drain as people just cannibalized each other with pointless struggle sessions of pointless shit. The vegan struggle session at least mattered while the struggle sessions I remembered included whether using a bidet is bourgeois or whether liking that Barbie movie means you're reactionary. There was this weird hostile undertone in people's interactions, like how people who don't like each other are forced to work with each other. The immediate atmosphere during federation was great as I felt people were cooperative towards each other even it's for the sake of an ultimately pointless goal of dunking on cringey Ledditors. In post-federation era Hexbear, it doesn't feel like a return to the pre-federation status quo. Post-federation Hexbear just feels different. I think Hexbear is too connected to the broader fediverse^TM^ for the vibes of pre-federation Hexbear to really come back.

3: I think the best way for online communities to contribute is through disseminating agriprop and funding real-life movements. Hexbear has been making modest steps towards those two especially with the efforts of Nakoichi and ChunkaLutaNetwork. It's really cool that we have established some form of relationship with actual Indigenous organizers. We can check off Step 1. Step 2 would be making sure ChunkaLutaNetwork can consistently rely on X number of dollars from Hexbear every month. That would be a massive boon since radical organizers have to constantly fight to secure funding even if it's something incredibly modest like $5 per month. Step 3 would be increasing how much ChunkaLutaNetwork can rely get per month and Step 4 would be them hooking up other Indigenous organizers with Hexbear. Notice these are actual actionable steps in contrast with "get organized" or "join an org" that Hexbear up to this point has advocated.

4: I don't think there's a meaningful difference between effortpost and just linking an article with something interesting to say. Seriously, what's the difference between someone typing an effortpost vs someone copypasting an article vs someone just linking the article? As long as interesting articles get posted, I don't see any issue, and I haven't felt like people have stopped sharing articles and blogs, which is how Reddit and its clone Lemmy have always functioned. I think book clubs like the one people are doing for Das Kapital is also an encouraging sign, and that one seems to have a lot more activity than the book clubs I participated in, another encouraging sign.

So overall, I wasn't around in 2020-2021, so I cannot comment on that, but I would say federation/post-federation Hexbear is noticeably better than 2022-era Hexbear.

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[–] GreenTeaRedFlag@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

I think there was a definite shift around the time of federating, and there are fewer effort posts, but the ratio of shit to effort posting went from like 80/20 to 90/10, not really too changed. The way I've interacted with the site has also changed a ton, and so have I, so maybe it just feels different. I generally agree overall.

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago

I've only known Hexbear since June, but I love it. Thanks, comrades. stalin-heart

[–] jabrd@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

This site has gotten worse as people have shitposted less and tried to do more serious analysis. You’re not good at it and nothing posted here has any consequence on how the world works, just share the good memes comrade

[–] quarrk@hexbear.net 8 points 1 year ago

Nostalgia is reactionary.

An Internet forum is never going to be a place to seriously organize. That happens IRL. It is nevertheless important to build community, that is a precursor to real organizing. I have lived in very right-wing areas in my life, and something like Hexbear can be an oasis for isolated leftists.

If anyone is concerned with the quality of Hexbear, then it’s ok to feel bad about that for a moment. But then step up and make the change happen. I personally don’t find it a waste of time to have a space where leftists can vent or just feel like they aren’t crazy to think the world sucks. Shitposting is praxis on some level, even if it’s not massively changing the world.

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