yeah, that ama convinced me it was time to take the plunge. just created this account, first comment on lemmy lol
first comment on lemmy
From kasirate@kbin.social
Lol. There's gonna be a lot of heads exploding when people realize what the fediverse is and how it works.
I don't even understand, myself. ATM I have one kbin account and a few Lemmy accounts. Not sure if there is an advantage to having an account on a kbin instance vs a Lemmy instance or anything??
At the moment, Jerboa seems like the best way to browse on Android (although nowhere near as polished as many of the bigger Reddit apps obviously), so it seems like picking a compatible instance with that works best right now. Still, it's all a bit overwhelming!
Just wrote a big post about Lemmy Vs kbin's, so I don't have to write it twice :)) https://kbin.social/m/asklemmy@lemmy.ml/t/9489/-/comment/40195
It'll balance out as more instances start up. I also joined blahaj. The flurry of activity gives me some vague sense of hope that most of the communities I followed on reddit will be able to restart on Lemmy.
Its almost too late, ive seen posts on several subs saying they're shutting down permanently due to the effective permanent removal of 3rd party mod tools and the misery of the 1st party apps. Reddit could be looking at a mass exodus a-la-digg. It remains to be seen how the fediverse will handle the mass influx of former redditors. If Spez has any shred of decency left he'd apologize profusely, return to a free API, and then beg the mods who are leaving to stay. Knowing capitalists, he absolutely will not.
Nah, read the AMA. He and Reddit (the company) in general are doubling down. I was hoping it was just anchoring (where the initial price for something is so ridiculously high, any other offer even if it's more than you should pay seems reasonable). But from his comments, and the Devs' responses, it's clear it's basically just a way to kill the API totally for users, I guess the only possible remaining use for the API is AI training. Tech companies would probably pay that much because it genuinely is worth it to them.
I joined vlemmy.net today .. I think it said there was 1 other user when I joined lol. No idea what I'm doing but so far it seems like I can see all the content from other instances as well.
Yep! The idea behind federation is that there are a bunch of smaller instances that can all talk to each other rather than one big central authority like with Facebook or Reddit!
It feels like user accounts need to be abstracted away from instances somehow. Federation means it's almost meaningless which instance you register with, and as integration between instances and other Fediverse apps gets better it will just become more and more meaningless. It should be possible to just "Join Lemmy" and have the servers behind the scenes handle spreading the load. You should be able to login to Lemmy from Beehaw.org or Lemmy.ml or any other Lemmy instance. The way it works at the moment is kind of like content is global but accounts aren't and it feels like it should be the other way around?
We need to build some kind of SSO that allows Lemmy users to authenticate with the same account on any instance, but will appear as if you're still using the instance you registered on. That way you could just login to another instance if your 'home' instance goes down for whatever reason.
I like the sound of this, just unsure how this would be able to authenticate an account on behalf of a home instance that's down, in a trustworthy way.
I'm not familiar with the inner workings of Lemmy and the Fediverse, so the following is based on similar implementations I'm familiar with...
SSO implementations usually require the website the user originally registered on (home instance) to confirm the account is real and authenticate it, and in most cases a new user account is automatically created using the SSO authentication details (this would prevent the user from appearing as if they're using their home instance).
To achieve what you want, I think we'd need some kind of way to export the user account and any signing keys used to prove the user is who they claim to be in the fediverse, and then re-import those to another instance. I'm not too sure if SSO would be able to achieve it if the home instance is down.
On the flip side, I'm pretty sure SSO with a Lemmy instance that is active could work. While it would bring a lot of benefit to less tech-savvy users, and a lot of convenience to us when we're given a threadiverse link to another instance, from a technical perspective I think that would be a challenging implementation. Users would need to be careful about having their credentials phished on a malicious instance too
Federation means it’s almost meaningless which instance you register with, and as integration between instances and other Fediverse apps gets better it will just become more and more meaningless.
IMO, this couldn't be further from the truth. Different communities have different priorities, principles, and technical requirements, and will take different approaches to controversy. Some communities are low-profile and laid back. Others are magnets for abuse and may require additional moderation, and even technical changes, like disabling image embeds (as one example) to mitigate harassment. Some are filled with avid shitposters, while others insist on the utmost degree of civility. Some have advanced requirements for operational security. Some want broad access to the network, while other would prefer a quiet corner. Some might be focused on video and require an instance that can handle the additional bandwidth and storage requirements.
Who hosts your instance is important. The jurisdiction your instance is housed in is important. If a community requires special accommodations for accessibility or other reasons, that is important. If an instance wants to go above the technical level and do things like verify users (kinda like journa.host) that makes an important distinction from your typical instance.
In the beginning, we won't know who's trustworthy, but this is the Internet. There will be controversies, and we will see how various admins respond to these controversies. Over time, they will gain reputations, both good and bad. It is best if somebody who already has a good reputation, like a respected mod from another community is able to operate the new home for that community.
For now, it probably doesn't matter where you end up, but as time passes, it is good to keep an ear to the ground and see how things develop. Eventually you will find a solid niche. This is a problem even the fanciest join-xyz-fediservice website can't really solve, but it is meaningful.
it's like email. You need a server somewhere to hold your inbox. They should make an easy way to migrate your user to another instance, though.
It feels like user accounts need to be abstracted away from instances somehow. Federation means it’s almost meaningless which instance you register with, and as integration between instances and other Fediverse apps gets better it will just become more and more meaningless. It should be possible to just “Join Lemmy” and have the servers behind the scenes handle spreading the load. You should be able to login to Lemmy from Beehaw.org or Lemmy.ml or any other Lemmy instance. The way it works at the moment is kind of like content is global but accounts aren’t and it feels like it should be the other way around?
User accounts can be independent of anyone else's instance. You just have to host your own.
But it's always going to be much more convenient to register your account on someone else's instance, than to set up your own. Even if instance setup was made to be as effortless as possible, and single-user instances were made to be as lightweight as possible, say you download and run a single binary onto your computer that runs a lemmy instance and everything is automatic from there, most people still wouldn't want to do that.
The idea that you should be able to log in to your account from any instance is...less practical than you might think.
The technical reasons why are hard to boil down into an easy explanation. But the very short version is that everything comes with pros and cons. Doing it this way makes it a little less convenient for users, and a little harder to make a good UX for. Doing it another way could make it more convenient, at the cost of making it very easy for a bad actor to do things like post fake content under another user's name, or could add inconvenience somewhere else, like making it so that users have to manage a private key instead of or in addition to their username and password.
I do think there's room for improvement, but I think the overall idea of logging in and interacting with content specifically via the instance you're registered with is ultimately very unlikely to change.
I didn't wait for the AMA to get hammered
I personally belief that regional instances are the way to go.
And at some point we also gotta think about how to organize the instances...legally, financially and technically. For now I'm really happy at how the instance I'm on is run. But to be fair. I have no clue who is running it. I have no clue wether I'm going to agree with future decisions. I don't even know if it will be around next week. Maybe the owner just decides he has more important things in life to do (which is fair tbh).
The model that lemmy is based on gives us all the tools to organize instances however we want to. I really want to see community owned instances. Here in Germany social non profit clubs are a thing. You can officially register them and there are laws, regulations that protect them from just being taken over. They have boards that get elected by the members on a regular basis. I think that could be a great model on how to run an instance that is truly owned by its members.
I'm sure there are similar models of organization in other countries too.
I think a barrier to wide-spread adoption of lemmy is that for a regular joe, the instance system is a bit confusing. I'm seeing a lot of people comparing the instances to email servers, but I think something they're missing is that there are a few large email providers which most people default to (e.g. gmail, yahoo, etc.) and a bunch of smaller ones which people go to if they disagree with the policies of the larger ones (e.g. protonmail)
I think that if lemmy is to replace reddit as the most widely-used link aggregator, we need some kind of default server (or set of default servers) which is large enough that people feel comfortable with settling in on. That way user base growth isn't hindered by confusion. If they later decide that a smaller instance suits their needs better (whether that be the moderation practices or site reliability), they can uproot and move their account there.
I do agree with that. This is definitely a barrier of entry. But you can't really completely get rid of it without taking away what makes lemmy what it is: A federated network and it's integral to what it is trying to acheive.
What I do believe you can do is mitigate it. "Default servers" could be part of that. Again I can only advocate for regional servers. In the bigger countries you can make that based on a 1 default server per state or region/province level. In smaller countries even one instance per country might be enough. People would automatically be on an instance that is uses their native language. You could also kinda slowly introduce them to the idea of federation like that: "This is the instance for your country. But you can also explore other countries and interact with their people".
Somebody could create a landing page to automatically pick an instance for a user based on what language their system is set to and their IP adress. A German user goes to the website and gets to pick the state they live in. They are getting suggested a server that correlates to whatever state they picked.
Obviously for now it would be overkill to create an instance for every single state. But hopefully we will get there.
Right now the recommended instances on join-lemmy.org are actually based on your system language, so we're halfway there.
While the other recommendation in the thread are good, I think they are hard to implement things that will take time.
A quick fix solution can be to add a button on join-lemmy which says something like 'Confused on where to join? click to join a recommended instance' that redirects to the sign-up of one of the recommended instances (there is already a list).
This will allow for load balancing and easier time for people to just come and join.
This will mean that the 'most recommended' instance will get absolutely hammered with new registrations though. Some randomisation should be necessary.
This was enough for me to start my own instance. It's not too hard with ansible, and Lemmy being Rust it's not needing that much CPU or RAM.
And I'll invite my friends here too. If you're capable of running your own server, do it for your friends. Form small communities and you can always subscribe to the big server communities from your own service.
That'll give me a use for my TrueNAS server that's for sure. It's got 24 cores 200gb of RAM and I basically use it exclusively for a NAS.
Now I just have to look into how to set it up.
As long as you get a public IP address, a domain name and TLS certificate, you can federate with other servers.
I run mine in a small Hetzner box. Two gigabytes of RAM, two AMD cores, it's almost like doing nothing even I'm federating a ton of messages all the time regarding the logs.
Remember folks, even if you do or don’t like Lemmy it is an alternative that appreciates the increased interest.
It also has something Reddit has been losing. Which is the small town feel. More people now even migrate to discord from Reddit. There was a time when on Reddit I felt like real people interacted. Now it all feels astroturfed.
Also, if they are suppressing mentions via Reddit just mention it on discord
I’m really curious to see how this will work out. Also very curious about being kinda at a start of the build up of a community. I know it’s not from “scratch”, but it’s still kinda exciting
I haven't noticed at all, because I follow communities on lemmy.ml and beehaw.org from my own instance. I had this experience when Mastodon.social kept going down during major Twitter exodus phases. Federation is awesome.
Can you tell me more about the pros and cons of running your own instance? Why did you choose to do that? I'm new at this so I'm very intrigued.
Of course. Here's a quick one:
Pros:
Cons:
*I'm joking about the billions. Probably.
mastodon struggled with scaling in the beginning, everytime elon strung more than four syllables together. a lot of admins there didn't know what the spikes would do - this is not a criticism, i would have had no idea either - and most new users piled into one or two big instances, as is happening here.
the more tech-savvy of the initial waves migrated to smaller instances, the instance admins figured out where the pain points were, and i think there were changes to mastodon itself. i expect all of these are coming for lemmy, and it's going to be lumpy here for a while just as it was in masto.
having lived through that, i came into a smaller instance here immediately. federation issues here are a bit gnarlier than on masto, but i trust that also will be sorted.
kbin.social is also suffering
sorry it just has the best UI out of the one's i've tried, i didn't mean to kill it v-v
This is the same type of scandal like the pao one. Reddit changed completely after that and the massive bans of subreddits. Only that time nobody decided to leave. I hope we grow to millions strong here soon and Reddit becomes a forgotten shell
Only that time nobody decided to leave.
Well, they did, but it was the r/FatPeopleHate folks who left. But they jumped ship to voat, which doesn't even exist anymore.
I remember a lot of regular redditors going to voat during that debacle. Voat seemed amazing for a while. The trouble was that voat couldn't handle the influx very well and couldn't solve the frequent outages, so most of the people who migrated bounced back to reddit. Then voat started showing how friendly they were to migrants from subs like /r/FatPeopleHate, which drove the remaining "well adjusted" people back to reddit.
I joined during the general influx so I don't have a good gauge but how much has lemmy grown since this whole debacle? How many users were here like a month ago?
a month ago it was like around 400-500 online users, today is 2300
At least he was honest enough to say that the sudden massive turnaround in their attitude to API pricing was their realisation they had the AI bros over a barrel.
Given how much of the content used in the existing models has been shown to have been scraped in violation of usage licences and copyright, anyone who is serious about developing new models is going to be scrabbling desperately to get access to good data sets.
The Reddit board now realise that charging through the nose for access to their API might generate them more money than all those annoying users ever have.
Aha This explains why things have been slow or wonky at times
I've been looking at different Lemmy communities the second pushshift was down (and let's just say finding things on Reddit suddenly became a lot harder because the built-in search function is kinda limited in a bunch of ways), and just made my account today out of random chance essentially LOL
I was scared my account got shut down or something, I’m relieved to hear it’s just a lot of traffic.
reporting for duty to join the revolution. thank you for hosting us!!
Everything about Lemmy; bugs, gripes, praises, and advocacy.
For discussion about the lemmy.ml instance, go to !meta@lemmy.ml.