saying that homophobes are just "secretly gay and trying to repress it" is homophobic itself (beehaw.org)

submitted 2 months ago by rosethornRangerTTV@beehaw.org to c/lgbtq_plus@beehaw.org

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It is victim blaming, we are not the reason homophobia exists or that people become extremely homophobic. It is not oppressed people that cause their own oppression, we don’t in some way “deserve” it.

Some aspects of the identity of sexuality may be related to physical and things we cannot control, but at the end of the day it is an identity. If they do not see themselves as gay, they are not. It is not for you to assign an identity to someone, even someone you don’t like. Even if someone might identify as gay outside of these power structures, in here they aren’t. Even if they would be gay, they participate in our oppression because being straight is beneficial to them, not because they “are secretly gay”. If they did homophobia because they were “ashamed” it wouldn’t be helping so many of them get into positions of power

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[-] charonn0@startrek.website 45 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

There is a correlation, though. I for one was deeply homophobic before I came out of the closet, and it was based on my fear of being labeled gay.

[-] TehPers@beehaw.org 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

My friend's homophobic dad was diagnosed with HIV right before his wife filed for divorce. They had a long discussion about how he got it, and he admitted to it being another guy. She was very lucky not to have HIV as well.

There does exist a correlation, but like all generalizations, it does not apply to all cases and can come off dismissive, rude, or minimizing when it isn't actually true. I find that it's best to avoid sweeping generalizations for people at all.

[-] pooberbee@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I agree. Not only is this blaming homosexuality as the cause for oppression of gay people, but it implicitly gives homophobes a completely made-up excuse ("they can't help it because they're so ashamed of who they are deep down"). Don't give your oppressors the benefit of the doubt.

[-] Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 2 months ago

My husband and I refer to that as the woke way to call someone a f*g.

[-] rosethornRangerTTV@beehaw.org 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

i would rather people just stop being cowards and call me a slur smh

[-] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago

Politely disagree. Saying something (even generalizing, which always tends to be wrong somewhere) about homophobic people doesn't say anything about non homophobic people. You don't have to identify with every gay person on earth, and you shouldn't. There are gay people who just so happen to be assholes, too. Their existence doesn't say anything about you at all.

It is victim blaming

I don't think so personally. They are still the oppressor in the situation. "Being secretly gay" is an attempt to explain, not to shift blame to you.

we are not the reason homophobia exists or that people become extremely homophobic

I think it's useful to seperate a causal explanation and the idea of responsibility. The fact that people are individuals and not unanimous blobs is - purely causally speaking - the reason why animosities based on our differences exists. Does that mean that the victims of hate are to blame? Definitely not. It's always, always the responsibility of the one who commits discrimination.

It is not oppressed people that cause their own oppression

I agree, but more precisely it is homophobic people, gay or not, who cause the oppression of non homophobic gay people. I think this is true independently if the stereotype is true.

we don’t in some way “deserve” it.

Absolutely agree. Nobody deserves that.

If they do not see themselves as gay, they are not.

The idea is that they kinda see themselves as gay, or are afraid they might be, or subconsciously know they are; and because of extreme toxic masculinity and sexism they get hateful and aggressive.

There surely are non gay homophobic people as well though. After all, some hetero people happen to be assholes as well.

[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 5 points 2 months ago

Generally speaking you're completely right, but there devinetively are people out there who are homophobic, that are in reality homosexual. I have no clu e how many but they do exist(a friend of one of my closer friends had this. He turned from being a homophone into a homosexual).

[-] guillem@aussie.zone 4 points 2 months ago

There is some correlation I guess, but I generaly agree. Not all homophobes are secretly gay but those who are, guess what, wouldn't be if it weren't for the systemic homophobia.

It rubs me the wrong way because it appears in the comments everytime a homophobic crime happens. Yeah, he must be secretly gay. Might be, might be not, but meanwhile we have already closed the case as an internal problem. Just queers killing/abusing/assaulting each other.