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submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

World’s first ‘superfast’ battery offers 400km range from 10 mins charge::Tesla, Toyota and VW supplier CATL says production will begin in 2023

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[-] GenderNeutralBro 184 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not once in the entire article do they measure energy in a unit suitable for measuring energy.

Measuring batteries in km is misleading and nonsensical. Batteries do not have a distance range. Cars have a distance range, based on many factors, only one of which is battery capacity.

Similarly, please stop measuring light output in watts that an imaginary incandescent bulb from 30 years ago might theoretically have used to produce that amount of light.

[-] audiomodder@lemmy.blahaj.zone 37 points 1 year ago

I remember having the light-measured-in-watts discussion years ago when LED lights were still considered a novelty. Of course, this was with a videographer who actually understood the issue. He complained that it wasn’t a good idea to limit car headlights based on their wattage, which is how all the laws at the time were written. 5 years later, suddenly there were LED headlights blinding everyone.

[-] TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I actually like the compatible watts for light bulbs. They should absolutely also prominently list a correct measurement (I assume linens?), but I only know how bright it is based on the old watt comparison.

Just like crop frame cameras list lens lengths in full frame equivalent because that is what people understand. But they also need to lose the actual mm.

[-] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 41 points 1 year ago
[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Stopped reading after: “increase in battery capacity and charge time was achieved through a “brand-new superconducting electrolyte formula” that results in improved conductivity.”

I guess the source, author or both don’t really care about technically accurate terminology. If it’s good enough for Star Trek, it’s good enough for us.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 17 points 1 year ago

But it's got electrolytes. It's what batteries crave!

[-] faceula@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

But what are electrolytes?

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[-] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

So should we use Foot candles or Lux?

[-] Dremor@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Lumens are the way. Lux being Lumen by square centimeters.

But for something that diffuse light all around it, Lux has no meaning.

[-] Meowoem@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

Nah we need radiation intensity by frequency graphs, anything else is just a magic number

[-] imgonnatrythis@lemm.ee 61 points 1 year ago

Show me an article promising substantially better battery tech in less than 5years and I will show you a steaming hot pile of crap.

[-] dbilitated@aussie.zone 25 points 1 year ago

honestly though batteries have improved a lot

[-] jhulten@infosec.pub 7 points 1 year ago

But the manufacturing engineering is harder than anyone thinks.

[-] dbilitated@aussie.zone 5 points 1 year ago

always. but saying "oh there's all these developments and they're all vapor" - i get sick of armchair experts telling everyone they know better every time on-the-horizon announcements come out. I get not all of them ever get produced, but by current phone has 10 times the battery capacity of my first one, and the quick charge really does give me something like an 80% charge in 15 minutes or so.

some of these claims are pretty out there but development keeps going and by the time something with high levels of performance is in your car these guys will be smugly crapping on something else to assert nerd authority. i guess it's just a social niche thing and nothing about batteries 🤷‍♂️

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We're past that point. Every claim you heard in the last 10 years has been researched to its end. Some worked out, some didn't, but we didn't need all of them. Just one or two breakthroughs are enough.

These are going into production this year They're not lab experiments anymore.

[-] imgonnatrythis@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Want to join me on an online betting platform and wager against my statement that you will not be able to purchase what is described here in 2years? We've seen these kinds of promises over and over again with battery tech. Slow incremental changes yes. These types of breakthrough reports are consistently garbage regardless of how close to market they claim they are. I presume they put these out to stir up investment.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago

I don't bet, but CATL is a company that already manufactures tons of batteries for EVs. It's not some fly by night operation hoping to live off venture capital. If it's not in actual BEVs within 2 years, it'll be because car manufacturers themselves take longer than that to integrate it into existing designs.

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[-] phil299@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

But in my lifetime battery tech has improved tremendously. Even in the last 5 years charge density and speed of recharge has had massive improvements.

[-] aidan@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

How quickly will capacity degrade charging at that speed?

[-] xuniL@lemmy.dbzer0.com 24 points 1 year ago

Other challenges include access to battery materials and battery degradation, though CATL claims this second pain point is not an issue with its latest battery.

[-] aidan@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago

If true then that's the real innovation for me. I don't want a car that I basically need to replace 70% the cost of every 4-5 years.

[-] Player2@sopuli.xyz 23 points 1 year ago

That's already not the case. Not only do you not need to replace the battery (the range is just slightly reduced over time), the degredation is a lot slower than that.

[-] aidan@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Yes reduced range is very important- especially when you live in a cold climate where range is already significantly reduced from that. The cold climate also speeds up the degradation of the battery.

[-] Cethin@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Do you have experience? Adoption of EV vehicles in Norway is really high without much issue, and it's likely colder than wherever you live. Plus, 400km is a lot. The average commute in America is 66km. 400km might be used on a fairly long road trip, but if you can charge in 10m it's not really an issue. The everyday experience is just plug it in at home and it's done by morning. No gas station visits or anything else.

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[-] A2PKXG@feddit.de 9 points 1 year ago

Current batteries can do 1000- 3000 cycles before the capacity drops below 80%.

With ranges of several hundred km this gives us hundreds of thousands km of lifetime mileage, if not a million.

Most ICE cars don't get that far either.

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[-] Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

Which is great. No need to poo poo it.

However. Fast charge isn't really necessary unless you are on a long journey over 400 km and need to charge on route or you drive a lot. Eg taxi Uber etc.

Best thing ever industry can do for planet would be a 350km car that's cheap. That's really what most car users require. They drive to and from work and most drive less than 100km a day.

Just like a phone you charge over night and don't need oooodles of range.

Anyone going on long trips really should be using a train with another vehicle if required at the destination.

Truckers are a different story and should be separated from the day to days if average car users

[-] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 29 points 1 year ago

However. Fast charge isn’t really necessary unless you are on a long journey over 400 km and need to charge on route or you drive a lot. Eg taxi Uber etc.

There is a large amount of apartment renters that don't have access to the preferable overnight slow charging. Fast charging like this article is talking about could be a game changer for that segment of buyers.

[-] Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Huge issue I know. One of the largest barriers to owning Evs. On street charging needs an overhaul and this is where you'd run into a lot of problems.

Given enough time and demand there’s no reason apartment complexes can’t outfit their parking spots with slow chargers. Slow charging a car is much less demanding (and efficient) than trying to fast charge.

[-] scottyjoe9@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago

Our appartement block just voted down getting an engineer in to see what would be required to have car charging infrastructure installed. To be honest I get it, owners don't want to pay for that for the hypothetical electric car owner in the future.

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[-] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 1 year ago

But that 350km should not be best case summer. It should be worst case -10°C at ~250-300km

[-] Mojojojo1993@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Absolutely. Has to be actually real life range. Not best case in a lab with nobody in it with everything turned off.

350km up and down hills in hot/ cold weather with 2 adults and a child in back. Charging phones playing music acceleration and braking.

[-] shashi154263@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Fast charge isn't really necessary

Totally disagree. I think fast charging is the biggest roadblock we have in making electric cars more popular. Just think how much time filling cars with petrol takes, charging should also take similar time. 10-15 mins would be ok if you also can have breakfast in that time.

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[-] crossover@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Charging at work via solar would be even better. If there was some way for businesses to be incentivised for it.

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[-] buckykat@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 1 year ago

Know what's better than a battery that charges fast? A train with a catenary that never has to charge at all

[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 year ago

It's not remotely realistic to expect a sudden drastic change in infrastructure like that. While we should work toward such goals, statements like this are ignorant of the time and efforts necessary to affect such change.

[-] oryx@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I'm getting so sick of the anti-car crowd commenting this stuff on anything related to cars. Like yes, we know, public transportation is good and a great goal. But they're just so out of touch with reality most of the time.

[-] Ghyste@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

Seriously. In fact we're doing both things in a lot of places.

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[-] ErikDegenerik@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Then build me a railroad track fucker.

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this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
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