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Rightwing PM Giorgia Meloni has demanded councils register only biological parents on birth certificates, leaving partners in legal limbo

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[-] TigrisMorte@kbin.social 162 points 1 year ago

But everyone swore that we were over reacting when we called her Fascist.
??????

[-] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 56 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How could anyone be overreacting? Isn't her only claim to fame her relationship to a fascist?

It would be one thing if it's incidental, but that's always seemed one of her primary selling points.

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The self proclamed "queen of the traditional family", almost actual quote

[-] FatTony@discuss.online 28 points 1 year ago

Her grandfather would be ... laying perfectly still in his grave.

[-] explodicle@local106.com 9 points 1 year ago

The people who tell you that you're overreacting are usually just scared to admit what's happening to themselves.

[-] Cylusthevirus@kbin.social 103 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The fuck is going on over there Italy? I know the USA's a dumpster fire but are you guys like ... trying to be the European equivalent of Mississippi?

[-] ikiru@lemmy.ml 73 points 1 year ago

They elected a fascist.

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 68 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

We have a massively growing right wing due to people finding little answers from the center-right. Left wing is a minority, and the only time a major center-left party went to power it was a split power with a right wing party that months later voluntarily sabotaged its own position of power just so the center-left party was not in power anymore. We went into technical government, during COVID.

What the people want to hear is increased wages, lower gas prices and less taxes. Yet, they vote "the queen of the traditional family" (almost actual quote) and now we have a prime minister that has cut welfare for the unemployed and reverting rights. But hey, they want to implement minimum wage I guess.

Still, you can't get away with cutting welfare like that. We have places like Naples almost rioting.

Connationals, I beg you, go vote. Don't let this happen so often...

[-] Blake@feddit.uk 23 points 1 year ago

Voting is NOT the way out of the situation that we’re in. You should still vote but it’s critical to understand that the absolute best that voting can achieve is the lesser evil.

If we want a solution that is actually good, we need to a fundamental change in the structure of society that can only happen outside of traditional electoral politics.

The structure fundamentally responsible for our problems - unequal distribution of resources and labour and the concentration of wealth into the hands of a very, very small minority (100 individuals have more wealth than an entire continent of ~1,460,000,000 people) - is the same one which completely dominates the outcome of elections.

Money decides who can run a campaign, buy support, pay for smear campaigns, control the media narrative, dominate the conversation by astroturfing social media, etc. etc. The system is so fundamentally controlled by money that there is absolutely no way to beat it using the rules of that very same system.

We need to build alternative systems that work outside of capitalism, for example, mutual aid (helping/supporting someone in return for their help/support in future), establishing co-operatives for food, housing, etc. to meet our needs, and establishing networks of support built on trust, mutual respect, and solidarity. Then we can withdraw our labour from capitalism entirely, causing it to collapse, and form the structure of a new society in the shell of the old.

Only by building an alternative to the system, can we truly make things better.

Only by knowing that voting can’t build that alternative, we realise that means we need to take action beyond voting.

[-] explodicle@local106.com 4 points 1 year ago

Very eloquently said!

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

I have an idea, fostering a labour movement and radicalizing the proletariat through the use of a vanguard party so that conditions for a, let's say, revolutionary change can have place.

How about that?

Also, despite how great co-operatives and mutual aid are they still work within a capitalist society and economy. They cannot be used as a band aid end all be all solution but a furthering force for the overthrow of capital and establishment of socialism.

Also, please do not repeat the mistakes of the Paris Commune. We cannot just detach from capitalism so peacfuly. The bourgeoisie will send death squads and paramilitary groups to anythint they consider remotely dangerous to their power.

So be ready to establish a people's militia.

[-] loutr@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 year ago

There's no minimum wage in Italy?

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nope. It was an optional complex system where organizations would sign deals to pay workers at least specific amounts if those workers are in particular fields.

Here is the thing. A major issue in Italy is "dark labor" ("lavoro a nero"), that essentially means working without signing a contract (so you are without any worker protection), making it not known to the state you are working and so evading taxes. In the current state adding minimum wage now adds a real chance to only fuel this terrible practice.

[-] Robaque@feddit.it 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's no statutory min wage

[-] Hamster42@feddit.it 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

massively growing right wing

They have the same numbers than last election, they won thanks to the low turnout. They are still the minority in Italy.

The majority just don't care, that's even worse

[-] fushuan@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I've said this for my country and I'll say it again, if you don't vote, you are effectively voting the winning party. It's your right, but don't you fucking dare complain later .

(not you you, them).

Right!? I don't get it. Why aren't we so far beyond this by now? This was shit that should have been solved ages ago yet here we are having the same goddamn discussions decade after decade. Let's just collectively grow the fuck up already. I just don't get it. I just don't. Fuck these people.

[-] RedWizard@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago

Didn't you know? It's the 20s all over again. Musolini came into power in 1922. Welcome to the 100 year backslide.

[-] singularity@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Then let's better skip the 30s and 40s...

[-] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

They elected a fascist party and leader.

[-] dottedgreenline@lemmy.ml 78 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

All countries are a few steps away from this type of shit. Nation states may have been a good departure from monarchies but have very much proven to be trash; the "cultures" and "ethnicities", etc. they proclaim to protect seem very much to be bullshit money-making schemes at best. A serious shift away from vertical economic and social hierarchies is the only solution. But deprogramming the world is not going to be easy.

[-] tillimarleen@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago

Indeed! Where and when do we meet?

[-] PuppyOSAndCoffee@lemmy.ml 64 points 1 year ago

This probably makes a cadre of old ladies happy but how does it help the children?

Seems unusually crude.

[-] Stamets@startrek.website 48 points 1 year ago

I mean... They're specifically taking away rights from gay people. Stealing their families. Demonizing us.

It has NOTHING to do with the children and it never has been. Children are used as an excuse to attack us. To demonize us. To make us out to be monsters that need to be exterminated.

Ive seen this my entire life and its never going to stop. People just want us dead.

[-] Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Across the world, the right wing authoritarian cry of "For the children!" has never, once, been anything but a Trojan horse to pursue injurious laws against people the authoritarians decry as "undesirable"

[-] kier@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

want an answer?

religion

[-] cloaker@kbin.social 34 points 1 year ago

Awful shit. Will this affect all adoptees or just those chosen by the fascist administration?

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Your understanding is generally inaccurate. (or at least seemed to)

A less spoken yet big topic in Italy is the "uterus for rent" ("utero in affitto"). While most media talks about the woman role, it actually goes both ways.

The explanation under the following spoiler is potentially NSFW, yet I will try to write it in the least sensitive way possibleThis is an illegal practice in Italy.

It consists in a person paying another person from the opposite sex so a child can be born between the two, but raised by only the payer. Used in the case where the actual couple cannot make a child on their own (so, in the case of same-sex unions or general infertility). The person who got payed would then disappear.

.

The block of the birth certificates is going against this practice.

[-] cloaker@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

The simple solution would be to regulate surrogacy which is normal. This also affects LGBTQ still.

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

I looked online, and looks like surrogacy is the actual term of this. Yes, surrogacy is illegal in Italy and of course it affects LGBTQ+ couples too.

Said in another comment that I don't understand the problem when it's regulated and done in a safe environment, instead of illegally with a massive list of risks both medically and legally.

[-] cloaker@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

My first question is how does this affect adopted children, and then second; why does the government not regulate surrogacy instead of just banning it.

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Depends what do you mean with adopted. A children adopted due to abandonment or loss of parents will still have the original parents in the certificate.

If you mean adopted at birth after the practice or similars, their birth certificate is invalid as you have read. In this case a child not having a valid birth certificate means having an invalid Italian citizenship meaning a legal risk for the parents and unability for legal access for institutions and documents, like creating a passport. This is a massive problem as a partner in surrogacy might be unreachable as done illegally, and they would need to sign the new birth certificate and state that child as their own. It also means only the registered member of the actual couple will show as a parent, and there are a lot of context where both registered parents are needed for signing.

Recap:

  • Invalid documents, until the donator shows up
  • The donator must become present in the child's life due to multiple documents needing signing from both registered parents
  • Only one member of the actual couple will be able to present themself as parent. It would make it illegal for the non-registered person to even pick up their child from school unless a extra permit is written.

Surrogacy has been banned in Italy in 2003 with a claim it promoted child-trafficking and prostitution. Currently, the law is defended by many right-wing parties (extremely powerful in Italy) claiming living without a biological mother or father is a violation of human rights for the child. At the moment, surrogacy is punished via a nasty fine (up to €1m) or jail time up to 2 years. The current government wants to expand this punishment also to Italian couple that had this practice outside of Italian soil. On a side note, same-sex marriage is also banned in Italy.

[-] elmicha@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

Note that surrogacy is illegal in many countries of Europe (sorry for the German page, I couldn't find the image in English Wikipedia).

[-] AlgeriaWorblebot@lemmy.nz 7 points 1 year ago

I see the block of the birth certificates as being ostensibly in support of the prohibition of this practice, but I can also very well see the underlying intent as being anti- same-sex-parenting.

Further, I don't understand why the practice should be prohibited in the first place.

So I disagree with it, but on the other hand I also disagree with it. Am just a filthy foreigner though so other than this comment I'll keep it to myself.

[-] SSUPII@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

I also disagree with the prohibition of this practice. I just cannot see how it's bad especially when done in appropriate ways, instead of illegally with a massive list of risks.

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[-] wax@lemmy.wtf 19 points 1 year ago

Ah, the classic "make a minority responsible for our problems" technique.

Splitting up completely functional families. Barbarians. Could this be appealed in the EU courts? Is political asylum in another country possible?

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 17 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


But in recent months – after Italy’s rightwing government began cracking down on the listing of same-sex parents on birth certificates – the life they have forged together has been thrust into uncertainty.

Following the birth of their children, she and Pardi spent years battling for legal recognition, butting up constantly against the absence of a national law setting out parental rights for same-sex couples.

What was taking place in Milan was a “direct breach of children’s rights” set out by the UN, MEPs noted in an amendment to a 2022 report, and “part of a broader attack against the LGBTQI+ community in Italy”.

The crackdown on same-sex parents has cast a spotlight on Italy’s ranking among the worst countries in western Europe when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights and added to fears that this meagre standing could be eroded under Meloni’s government.

“This ban is one of the most concrete manifestations of the fury that the rightwing majority is unleashing against LGBTI people,” Gabriele Piazzoni from Arcigay, Italy’s largest LGBTQ+ rights group, told media earlier this year.

Italy legalised same-sex civil unions in 2016 but stopped short of allowing gay couples the right to adopt amid opposition from rightwing parties and the Catholic church.


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this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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