Anyone using Lineage? How is it?
I’ve got a Pixel 7 and have been wondering
To be honest I do not see any reason to use Lineage with Pixel while there is GrapheneOS... But maybe there will be some users of it: it is always better to have more free open OS
The only use case i guess if you prefer microG implementation v sandboxed GPS.
I think GOS model will end up being proven right from security/privacy perspective but the debate is ongoing.
GOS chief should not be in any public facing communication position though... that weaponized autism with heavy dose of paranoia is what is needed to develop GOS but not a good look objectively, and I give people a lot benefit of doubt.
I use GOS and agree with you completely some of the things GOS has done and said in the past should have never happened and hurt GOS more than it helped it. Also on the micro G front You are correct still being debated but as long as Micro G is signature spoofing it is my opinion it is not secure as signature spoofing requires kernel changes that in fact weaken Android's security model.
Maybe an unpopular opinion here, the Android security model is based around trusting the vendor of the device or ROM more than the end-user, which I find wrong in principle. The origin of trust needs to be fully in the hands of the owner of the device. Otherwise you take away the self-determination of the users, and that should never be an option when it comes to security.
Users themselves should be able to give or take away trust however they choose, and if they are unsure on whom to trust for certain things, they should be able to delegate that trust-management to a third-party on their own accord and with the ability to revoke it at any point.
Everyone is different, and trusts entities to different degrees. For instance I would trust MicroG more to only transmit data that is absolutely required to google servers, than the gapps.
Also, modifying the kernel is already done by google, in order to provide hardware support, so patching it additionally doesn't automatically make it more or less secure. That depends on what those patches do, and if those patches are properly maintained.
Correct but GOS reverses alot of Google patches like always on voice requires kernel privalage it is disabled on GOS etc. But kernel level signature spoofing gives way for a malicious app to spoof as micro g and infect your device and you would never know because micro g requires the same thing to function it is making itself look like Google when it is not google. So using microg opens your device up to allot more ways for it to be compromised and also makes it harder to detect or notice once it is compromised. For me the security risk of kernel level spoofing is way to high to use on a production device used everyday. Also I trust neither Google or microg I only use Foss apps I don't have Sandboxed play services installed at all I just don't use Google anymore.
I haven't looked into it (because Android repos are confusing), but I assume it allows just one specific signature to spoof one other specific signature. If so then I do not see such a security issue, because it wouldn't suddenly open this mechanism up to everyone.
Even if it would require spoofing of multiple signatures, if there is a limited list of signatures to spoof as and a whitelist of signatures for the apps that are allowed to spoof them, then it would also be limited enough, IMO.
IIUC, you don't need to patch LineageOS anymore for MicroG: https://github.com/lineageos4microg/android_vendor_partner_gms/blob/master/README.md#microg-mobile-services
Graphene has a relatively short support, especially given that the phones for it are completwly unaffordable new so it's effectively shorter than advertised. I am now spoiled by using a device that is not EOL so I think I will be switching when GOS' support ends.
GOS Supports the pixel devices for the same amount of time as Google hard to keep a device secure once drivers are no longer being updated. But with Google extending support for pixel 6 and 7 series and the new 7 year guarantee on pixel 8 devices and newer this isn't really a concern anymore. So pixel 7a and fold will be supported until 2028 and Pixel 6 and 6 pro until 2026 pixel 7, 7 pro, and 6a until 2027. Seems like plenty of time for support and that means as long as Google supports it so does GOS.
I used it extensively ony Samsung Galaxy S4 until Android 9 or 11. Was very good (model jflte(xx))
It's annoying to upgrade between whole number android versions.
its alright, it kept my "supposed to be dead" phone to keep on running with latest stuff, i like the built in firewall, but if you're privicy focused then this is not for you.
What privacy issues are you talking about?
Once LinageOS is installed your bootloader is always unlocked so anyone who finds your phone if lost owns it. GrapheneOS and a few other ROMs I forget the names of allow the bootloader to be relocked keeping android security model intact allowing the device to still be secure.
Is the bootloader really that important for a lost phone? If someone finds your phone can't they just tear it apart and read the storage with external tools? A locked bootloader sounds more like an anti-tampering measure and not for protecting your phone's content after it's lost.
If someone finds your phone can't they just tear it apart and read the storage with external tools?
that's not the problem that BL locking solves. this is solved by storage encryption. BL locking solves 2 other problems:
It is largely an anti-tampering measure. Without it you could have things injected into the system. For example, a stalker could install a hidden tracking program as a service and then return your phone without you knowing.
Iirc it's also a prerequisite for full-disk encryption on modern android. So, without it your user data is available to be dumped in an unencrypted state. Most phone thieves are interested in reselling the phone, so they're provably not going to go through the effort and risk damage to the phone just to dump encrypted data from the chips directly. However, if it's just available unencrypted from fastboot why not dump it? They could get info that could be used to blackmail or scam you or people you know. Or they could just sell the data.
I dont get why anyone would use LineageOS on a phone that new and that well supported by custom roms (GraphineOS, /e/os, etc)
I like lineageOS more, because GrapheneOS includes google play, even while sandboxed i don't like that
By default no, you install it later (as a sandboxed app)
yeah but i like microG and i read it isnt supported
True But maybe might be helpful if the phone hits EOL?
At that point using it will be less secure, the reason why GraphineOS stops supporting devices is because they focus on security. In addition the Pixel 9 will be EOL in what eight years from now? Maybe even more
Eight years, minus the few years you'd have to wait until the phone is close to affordable. And updates via LineageOS is still way better than just using a phone with no updates when it hits EOL like you normally would.
Calling the pixel 9 unaffordable when it's literally the cheapest flagship in the market.
"Flagship" is doing a lot of work here. Most people here use cheap phones. My Pixel 7 was already $300, which is a bit hard to swallow, and it was not the newest model at the moment. Pixel 9 in the same place is close to $1k now, which is completely out of reach for a lot of people including me. That is frankly an insane sum to spend on a phone.
How safe is Lineage?
Their devs dont really care about security so id say its not safe at all.
Any source on this?
Lineage allows people to have newer android/security patches on end-of-life phones, that's a pretty good security argument.
That first link talks about how it requires an unlocked bootloader, therefore verified boot is disabled and the device is less secure.
While that is true, I think that's a bit of an unfair thing to hold against it considering on most Android phones, you need to unlock the bootloader to run anything the OEM doesn't approve, and most vendors do not support installing your own keys.
That should be a criticism against the OEM for forcing you to weaken the security of the device to have full control over it, not Lineage. That is not really their fault.
I think it would be nice of them to mention that the signing keys being held by the OEM and the OEM only is a massive security (and freedom!) weakness on it's own, and that without being able to sign everything yourself, you can't really be certain of the security of your device, as you cannot control everything on it.
GrapheneOS
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