this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2025
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What is Neurodivergence?

It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc

“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”

So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned


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Putting this in neurodiverse because i am neurodiverse and i'm working with an autistic population.

Most of what I've been doing so far is Natural Environment Training, which is cool, but every time a kid gets super upset i almost always freeze for a bit before doing anything else. For little kids like toddlers, crying will just happen, its whatever

But for like, the 5 year olds, it's so distressing seeing them distressed, how the fuck do parents do this what tje fuck

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[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 23 points 1 month ago (3 children)

It's really hard. We're going through this currently with our 4yo. She is a full fledged person now capable of reason and self determination, and nothing gets by her. You have to watch what you say and how you say it because she will internalize it and absorb it into her personality. This includes hurtful things. One thing I've been grappling with recently is not manifesting the tone and language I was raised on when reacting to behavior.

It's very confronting. You don't even recognize it as the same language and tone that got under your skin growing up. It's like an ingrained reaction you can't control. A kind of learned reflex to confrontation and conflict. Our 4yo has taken to getting very frustrated with us "bossing her around", and that has lead to a number of screaming/crying outbursts at home. Thankfully we at least have a release valve thanks to daycare, where she knows that if shes very upset she can remove herself to her room to try and calm down. They have the "cozy corner" at daycare that functions similarly.

But the reality is, shes right, we are "bossing her around". That's a hard pill to swallow initially, that your 4yo has a better read on you then you do. Now obviously, your situation is different. You are not the direct behavioral influence for these kids, and they have needs mine don't. For us, it's pretty clear that her behavior is resulting from our behavior. So, now imagine that same upset kid, but they live with you, they experience you in your full range of existence, good and bad, happy and frustrated, you name it, and while they're upset you are internally trying to figure out if you're the reason this keeps happening, or of it's something else.

A comrade mentioned reading a book called "How To Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber & Elaine Mazlish. The second chapter is about building cooperation, which after reading it, is clearly the opposite of bossing around.

Part of the trap that is set for you is that between the ages of 2 to 4 is a period of total cooperation and playful disobedience in my experience. The kids eat what you make, they follow you when you walk, and when they are being disobedient it's cute because they're just exploring. Most conflict is simply an issue of communication and can be mitigated though baby sign language.

Then they become sentient. They begin to think in terms of I, me, my. They recognize patterns and can vocalize observations. They develop taste, things they like and don't like. They become more goal oriented and they can become bored. The script can become flipped, and you enter a zone of playful cooperation and rationalized disobedience.

You become accustomed to the cooperation, which presents itself as obedience. It never was obedience though because prior to full sentience, the principal motivator was just being around you. You are what they want and need, and they will follow you anywhere. My almost 2 year old is growing out of that phase now, as he becomes older. Now there are times where the motivator isn't us, and that's where conflict begins. This is where you might start to think they're being disobedient and attempt to regain that obedience. The more motivators they develop, the less obedient they appear.

It happens so gradually that it's like behavioral Hypoxia. You start being more demanding, you use phrases like "because I said so" and "you should just listen to me." Those two things were enough when you were their only motivator. Now, candy is a motivator, snacks are a motivator, the TV is a motivator, their personal taste is a motivator. They simultaneously know everything and nothing. Eventually, you might find yourself saying things like "I don't understand why you can't X" or "You always/never do Y".

As someone who grew up not knowing I had ADHD and who still struggles with it, those are foundational statements. Those statements shape my internal monolog to this day. They are also the only examples I have of how to respond to a lack of cooperation. It's clear to me that that language has put undo stress on my kiddo.

The other part of the trap you set yourself. Now that I've recognized my behavior, I have to change it. Changing my behavior though appears suspicious to a fully sentient 4yo. They are still resistant even though you're hopefully being less mean. I'm told though that if I just follow through with centering cooperation and acknowledging how capable she is, she'll come back around. The goal when communicating is to remove "you" from the message. As a small example, "You need to clean up your plate and fork!" could become "I see a plate and fork still in the table!"

It's obvious what the problem is in hind sight. Targeting them directly is commanding, aka bossing around. Pointing out the plate and fork is an observation and they get to interpret what needs to be done and then do it.

So yeah. Its a struggle. It's exhausting. Being exhausted makes everything harder.

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 9 points 1 month ago

So much self-reflection, that's impressive! I'm not a parent, but I feel like I get a lot of this, because it's articulated so well. Also sounds, like you really intend to do your best!

The goal when communicating is to remove "you" from the message. As a small example, "You need to clean up your plate and fork!" could become "I see a plate and fork still in the table!"

That's like classic non-violent communication by Marshall Rosenberg. There is more to it and it helps with adults too, not just with children.

So yeah. Its a struggle. It's exhausting. Being exhausted makes everything harder.

Maybe forgiveness might help with the exhaustion. For the mistakes of your own caretakers, for yourself, for your children. Most importantly for yourself. You can more easily try your best every day, if blame for not getting it perfect all the time doesn't become so strong, that it gets in the way. Not sure, if this applies at all to your case.

[–] Melonius@hexbear.net 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Definitely feel this too. My kid once told me "you like being angry at me" when we denied snacks and caused us to have to reasess how we were communicating. Its a very hard cycle to break and will not happen naturally.

Thanks for the book rec as well!

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 4 points 1 month ago

The book is 50% work sheet and 50% reading. It's a very easy read and you read each chapter in about 10ish minutes. What I've taken from it just in the first two chapters is, if your bag is full of swords the only thing you're looking for is a fight.

[–] Beaver@hexbear.net 3 points 1 month ago

Saving this comment for 3 or 4 years from now, I think I'm going to need it.