this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2025
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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 53 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

We operate under the depression-era assumption that per-capita GDP is some kinda gold-standard metric for evaluating how well a country is doing economically. In reality per-capita GDP is just tracking the trash changing hands. We also overemphasize transactionality because of this. It's somehow much better from an "economic perspective" to have everyone buying new shirts every week even if it's the same people buying and then tossing the same fast fashion junk in the trash.

When you consider other metrics we could be judged by such as the OP is kinda pointing at here, our country looks way fucking worse on the leaderboard.

We ought to use the measures of the material conditions of our population to drive policy rather than how much currency has changed hands and how many worthless transactions have occurred.

[–] Jamablaya@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Yeah that's how Canada is pretending it's not been in a recession for years. Out of control housing market has inflated the GDP on paper, when everyone else can basically go fuck themselves I guess according to the government

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 73 points 2 days ago (3 children)

This concept has a name. Artificial Scarcity.

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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 95 points 2 days ago (15 children)

Related: the idea that everyone needs to work all the time isn't really true anymore. If we were in like 3000 bce in a small farming village outside Ur, yeah, people gotta pitch in so we don't get eaten by wildlife, the neighboring tribe, or whatever.

But in 2025ce, where so many jobs have so much filler nonsense? And when the rich can just live on investment income? No, the whole "work or starve" thing isn't needed anymore.

We should have basic income for all and public housing. Let people pursue what they want. Maybe it's art. Maybe they just want to take care of the local library. Maybe they just want to be a local barfly that keeps the tavern interesting. Who knows? But wage slavery needs to go.

[–] SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 2 days ago (3 children)

when the rich can just live on investment income

How do you think they make that money? Primarily off of consumerism. If we all collectively decided to share what we have and stop buying what we don't need, there could be no passive income, not at the scale it exists today, anyways.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

We also need to outlaw landlords. Owning land is not a job and it's certainly not a business.

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[–] alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com 164 points 2 days ago (7 children)

Here in the Netherlands, the government agency for housing has the figures on how many second homes people own, but refuses to publish it.

Journalists have estimated that the number is about equal to the number of people looking for a house. About 400K on a population of 18M.

The scarcity is artificial.

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 52 points 2 days ago (20 children)

I don't think owning a second home per se is wrong or evil. Many people can't afford buying a house due to the upfront costs. But owning a second home and leaving it empty for years? Owning multiple homes to use as Airbnbs in residential areas? I really wish this was regulated. But it will never be because there's big bucks being made there.

[–] theneverfox@pawb.social 42 points 2 days ago (14 children)

I'm even ok with them owning a second house - but I think simple, easily understood answers are what's called for in this day and age (nuance is so easily corrupted) so here's my pitch

You have a second house? If it's empty for 6 months, your taxes start going up. By a year it should be more then the house value rises, and it should just keep going up

Same with apartments and any property opening companies. Honestly, I'd be fine saying it all starts when your household owns at least three homes

You can surrender the house to the government to be rented at cost, maybe for a tax write-off for the first 10 years or something, otherwise it should just keep rising to insane levels.

I want people begging for renters. Developers should slash their prices to move units quickly - it'll incentivize more affordable housing. Hell, I want landlords so desperate they pay people to inhabit them for a fixed time period.

And that's why I like 3 - you had to move and your house isn't selling? I don't want to screw over individuals, there's easier people to. You have a vacation house? Fine, but if you move you better get your empty house sold.

It'll cause all kinds of problems, but we have empty homes and homeless people - that's just uncivilized

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[–] Rolive@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There's also so much bureaucratic pushback to building new houses for all sorts of bullshit reasons. The scarcity is indeed artificial and this is the kind of corruption that we accuse 3d world countries of. Except here it's called "lobbying".

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[–] JennyLaFae@lemmy.blahaj.zone 56 points 2 days ago (5 children)

We don't have a resource problem, we have a distribution problem.

Resources are constantly being wasted to accelerate the wealth transfer up the chain.

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[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 73 points 2 days ago

It doesn't blow my mind, it infuriates me

[–] crmsnbleyd@sopuli.xyz 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

And people think it's the fault of the poor that they don't have enough :)

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 16 points 2 days ago (5 children)

First, I agree with the general sentiment. However, there are some devilish details.

Take a look at some pictures of Gary, Indiana. It's an entire city that's been mostly abandoned since the collapse of the industry that built it. There are entire boarded up neighborhoods, and some quite fine large, brick houses where wealthy people used to live. It's all just sitting there. I'm sure that Gary would love to have people start moving back in, and revive the city.

So, say Gary just eminent-domained all those properties, and said to America: you want a house? All you have to do is come, pick one, and move in. You live in it for 5 years, it's your's.

The problem is that it costs money to keep up a home. Home maintenance is stupid expensive, and most of these abandoned homes need repairs: new windows, new roofs, new water heaters, plumbing repairs, electrical repairs. Do you have any idea what a new window costs? And even if it's sweat equity, and you're able to repair a roof yourself, you still need materials. Where does this money come from?

Are the homeless in California going to move to Gary, IN? Are the homeless in Alabama? There are homeless employed folks, but they're tied to their locations by their jobs. They're not moving to Gary.

Finally, it's a truism that it's often less expensive to tear down a house in poor condition and build a new one than it is to renovate. If these people don't have the money to build a new house, how are they going to afford to renovate a vacant one.

The problem is that people need jobs to live in a house (unless someone else is paying for taxes, insurance, and maintenance). And the places with jobs aren't the places like Gary, that have a abundance of empty homes. All of those empty homes are in inconvenient places, where the industry and jobs they created dried up.

It may be that a well-funded organization could artificially construct a self-sustaining community built on the bones of a dead one. But I think it's oversimplifying to suggest that you can just take an empty home away from the owner (let's assume you can) and just stick homeless people in it and assume it'll work - that, even given a house, they'll be able to afford to keep it heated, maintained, powered, insured. Shit, even if you given them a complete tax exemption, just keeping a house is expensive.

I'm sure there are some minority of homeless for whom giving an abandoned home in the area they live would solve their problems. And I'm sure that, for a while at least, having a bigger box to live in would be an improvement for many, even if the box is slowly falling apart around them. But I think it's naive to be angry about the number of empty homes, and that homelessness could be solved by relocating the homeless to where these places are and assigning them a house - whatever state it's in.

[–] melpomenesclevage@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (4 children)

so, the biggest reasons why the california unhoused population is so big are because social workers from the rest of the country send their high needs people our way. it's called 'greyhound therapy'-california is warm enough you won't freeze in winter, nobody thinks about heat stroke, and a bus ticket is better than a month of shelter beds. we also get all the children they throw away for being queer, at least the ones who don't just join the military, which isn't going to be a thing anymore, for pretty similar reasons.

so the opposite of that actually happens. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would like to go home.

except... even in los angeles, there are so many empty units. I don't just mean for turnover-the half dozen or so big landlording companies make more money keeping a unit empty and recursively leveraging it like tesla stock than renting it out to a tenant with good income and dubious credit. so we are being stared at by a thousand blind windows at all times. many of them in large buildings that are partially occupied, and even the single family residences are well maintained, because they exist as financial instruments. I doubt it's enough, but not everybody actually wants to live in los angeles-the food is great, the culture is good, I adore the mild winters, and so much else, but the hills, the traffic, the ground constantly shaking, the noise, the fact one of our seasons is just 'fire' and the smoke sometimes drops the temperature by a degree or two so it's not even a net negative every time, the amount of funding we give to the gangs, and the fact it's just so fucking big and so fucking city just isn't for everyone. I'm sure there are people who miss snow.

the concept is more sound than you would think, and it's not like there's any down side.

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[–] Not_mikey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 days ago

We don't need to move them, there are vacant homes everywhere. Even in San francisco the residential vacancy rate is 6%. The unhoused in San francisco make up about 1% of the population, so assuming the unhoused population takes up the same amount of housing per person as the housed population, we could house every unhoused person here and still have 5% left over.

That's the worst case too, the rest of the country has a higher vacancy rate and a proportionally lower unhoused population.

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[–] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago (4 children)

That's capitalism baybe. The expectation of infinite growth in a finite system based around the infinite sales of infinite products that have a price because they say they are finite.

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[–] papertowels@mander.xyz 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Shout-out to too good to go - an app that aims to minimize food waste by letting restaurants and grocery stores sell "surprise bags" of food at 1/3 to 1/2 off!

Good mythical morning has a few episodes featuring these!

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