I actually fully agree with the decision to not return tariffs. Nz can find other markets for their exports and probably still complete in the us with the tarrifs. However NZ businesses would get destroyed by a 20% tariff as a lot of the goods we import cannot be replaced elsewhere.
this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
44 points (100.0% liked)
NZ Politics
625 readers
33 users here now
Kia ora and welcome to the NZ Politics community!
This is a place for respectful discussions about everything that's political and kiwi
This is an inclusive space where diverse opinions are valued, but please don't be a dick
Banner image by Tom Ackroyd, CC-BY-SA
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
What are we getting from the USA that we can't get anywhere else?
A lot of what we import from the US is machinery, im assuming its specialized machinery that is designed to work together with other products from that company as the US is notorious for closed eco systems. If we tariff the US then we are forcing our businesses to pay extra for those machines or pay the cost of refitting their entire fleet. Doing this at a time when markets are crashing and uncertainty is high is in my opinion supremely stupid.
I'm all for trying to hurt the US but nz returning the tariffs doesn't hurt the US since the cost is paid by nz buisness. The US hurt themselves already by putting tariffs on us. NZ can chill and do its own thing, we can weather this storm pretty easily. The US has stabbed us in the back and even without tariffs I can bet that NZ businesses will be looking for non US suppliers where possible.
I wish you could be a little more specific. What kind of machinery? Which businesses will be harmed? Are there really no alternatives to these machines?
The US has stabbed us in the back and even without tariffs I can bet that NZ businesses will be looking for non US suppliers where possible.
tariffs would add some incentive for them to do this.
To give one example, automation equipment.
Sure there are alternatives, but changing is the work of years and millions of dollars, just to get what you are currently getting. For big plants, in may be it the 10's of millions.
A large percentage of the NZ automation market is using Rockwell gear, an American company.
Why do I have to be specific, the point stands on its own. Why should our businesses pay an increased price for American good? Our businesses will move away from American goods without the punishment of tariffs. Nz is not in the economical position for tariffs. We are already moving to create free trade agreements in Asia and the EU which is enough hurt to the us.
Our 3 biggest imports from the US are agricultural machinery, ICT goods and healthcare goods. So I'd say those are hard and costly to replace especially with vendor lock in.
Edit: Im trying to correct the record on this because I saw somewhere people were also calling Hipkins a spineless coward for saying NZ shouldnt launch reciprocal tariffs.
Why do I have to be specific, the point stands on its own.
I don't think so. Your point is that there is no way to get competing machines or parts from other places in the world. This is a dubious claim and you'd need to provide at least an example or two.
Why should our businesses pay an increased price for American good?
To discourage them from buying from the USA. The reason for that is because the USA is trying to discourage it's consumers from buying products from New Zealand with the specific intent of hurting New Zealand which means you and me.
Our 3 biggest imports from the US are agricultural machinery, ICT goods and healthcare goods. So I’d say those are hard and costly to replace especially with vendor lock in.
First of all I doubt these machines are actually manufactured in the USA. If they are not we can just import them from the countries where they are manufactured. Both ICT goods (whatever that means) and healthcare goods are widely available from countless countries around the world including the EU, China, India, and Canada.
My point is not that there is no where else to buy the products. My point is that there is no point in the government stepping in and deciding that nz businesses now have to pay extra.
The US tariffs dont hurt us much. We can sell elsewhere and likely still complete in the us with the tariffs. However if our government tariggs us goods it will hurt us a lot. Extra costs on our top 3 US imports would make everything more expensive here, make our exports less competitive and do all this at a time when market capital is uncertain and liquidity is low.
These devices all do final stage manufacturing in the US. Switching out a system can cost a fuck ton. If I had a John deer tractor system and I had to switch it to a Chinese one there would be a ton of things that dont work together and require buying a new thing. Thats wasteful.
Nzers have more than enough reasons to boycott and avoid the us. I dont think it is a good idea for the government to make the decision for us.
My point is not that there is no where else to buy the products. My point is that there is no point in the government stepping in and deciding that nz businesses now have to pay extra.
I already explained the point. The point is to discourage them from buying from the USA because the USA is trying to discourage it's consumers from buying products from New Zealand. Machines from other countries are likely to be cheaper as well so it might even be cheaper.
The US tariffs dont hurt us much.
It hurts us some, they can also change things on a whim when they decide to hurt us more.
Nzers have more than enough reasons to boycott and avoid the us. I dont think it is a good idea for the government to make the decision for us.
Trade policy is set by the government. If this government just rolls over and takes it then we are going to be forever fucked whenever the US decides to use us as a whipping boy.
Coward
Spineless bootlicker. Maybe he's hoping for some road cones.
I don't think there's a particularly right or wrong answer in response to the tariffs, but we should be seriously considering our security posture which ties us so heavily to the USA.
There has always been an unspoken risk by being tied so closely to the US; but as their interest in & ability to defend their allies wanes those risks move from the unlikely to likely.
Some will argue we can't take an independent position as we'll just get pulled in the orbit of some bloc against our will anyway. Its difficult to have a good answer on where we should align ourselves.
We could lobby for EU membership I suppose
I'd kinda like CANZUK to be a thing.
We don't have to tie ourselves to the USA, we have other options. We could seek closer ties to India, China, Japan, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand and other nations near us. I think what's preventing us from doing this is frankly just bigotry.
Today, BRICS countries are home to roughly 3.3 billion people — over 40% of the global population. The BRICS economies also account for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity. We could join BRICS but we won't, we could join the EU but they might not have us.
I don't think its just bigotry, there's a load of tradition and history that ties particularly Pakeha New Zealand to the west. And without devolving into bothsidesism (although, obviously it is) some people do have questions about aligning with regimes accused of human rights abuses and what not.
I think NZ does need to start having the discussion though; the old assumptions and alliances are bending and its foolish not to ask where our future alignment is best placed.
When you say "aligning with regimes accused of human rights abuses" you mean the USA, UK, Israel, France, Germany etc right?
Trump can stay irrational longer than NZ can stay solvent...
We have to wean ourself off that teat.
Lucky for us we already have free trade deals with other countries and they can buy everything se well.
Yeah. Wtf is with the other comments. Yes Luxon sucks but this is the correct move and is probably informed by policy experts at RBNZ and Treasury.
Trump’s reaction to Canada actually implementing reciprocal tariffs shows how bad of an idea this is. I’m an economist, and this is the textbook definition of the prisoner’s dilemma. Both sides get hit with negative payoffs and it is the worst result overall.
He backed off canadian tariffs several times when they retaliated.
As an economist what do you think is the benefit of only one side being hit with negative payoffs?
And I think the Senate has now passed a pull back of those tarriffs as well.
Actually that just just a book binding type of thing. It didn’t stop trump
similar to our govt, which is thinking of sending someone to plead with Trump to ease the tariffs.
I mean, just look at what happened to Zelenskyy, he was bullied
He stood his ground and still hasn't given up half of his mineral wealth to Trump and Europe has promised to continue to support Ukraine.
He did learn his lesson though. You can't trust the USA. Hopefully that's a lesson we will learn too but that's dim hope given how Seymour, Winston, and Luxon have embraced MAGA.
Would that not just make US products more expensive for us? Not that I'm buying many US based goods these days.
To be honest I don't even know what are our major imports from America are.
Software....
I was trying to figure out the same thing, Ford Utes? But they might actually be made somewhere in SEA for all I know given they're right-hand drive models. Teslas will be coming from there and it would be a good energy move to put tarrifs on electric vehicles imported from USA just to spite space karen. I'm sure there's plenty of other mundane stuff we just don't think about.
Kiwi Tesla's probably come from China like Aussie ones.
Yes. That's the whole idea. It would discourage people from buying products from the USA just like he is discouraging Americans from buying our products.
Winston will be happy. He's trying real hard to be 47.